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Brampton: Centre for Innovation/Ryerson University

Coruscanti Cognoscente

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Hopkins123

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This seems a bit bizarre to me. I was hoping that Sheridan itself would be upgraded to university status. Oh well.
 

Avenue

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I'm just hoping this doesn't take focus away for Ryerson from its downtown campus. Ryerson's expansive presence has done a lot of good for its area for sure.
 

salsa

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I searched for any news about this or a general Ryerson University thread and couldn't find either. So I'm creating a thread for the proposed Brampton campus for RU. Apologies if I missed one.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/03/14/ryerson-university-applies-to-expand-campus-to-brampton.html
I keep hearing this talking point about how Brampton is the largest city without a university. I'm trying to understand why does this matter so much? And how come (aside from bragging rights) Sheridan college with 13,000 students doesn't count just because it's not a university? Besides, I thought the most important part of choosing a school is whether it has the program you're interested in. I didn't go to York University even though it's the closest school to where I live. No, instead I went to U of T because that's where I wanted to study. So even if Brampton gets a campus, that doesn't mean that most residents will stop going somewhere else for their education.
 
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Northern Light

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I keep hearing this talking point about how Brampton is the largest city without a university. I'm trying to understand why does this matter so much? And how come (aside from bragging rights) Sheridan college with 13,000 students doesn't count just because it's not a university? Besides, I thought the most important part of choosing a school is whether it has the program you're interested in. I didn't go to York University even though it's the closest school to where I live. No, instead I went to U of T because that's where I wanted to study. So even if Brampton gets a campus, that doesn't mean that most residents will stop going somewhere else for their education.
I think this needs to be understood in a few contexts.

First, that the Liberals had decided that Ontario needed additional under-grad capacity in the GTA/Southern Ontario.

Second, that U of T has made clear they do not want any additional undergrads @ St. George campus and maybe even a few less.

As such, the discussion has revolved around the notion of approving three new campuses and/or universities.

The leaning has been in the direction of campuses as it saves the logistics and dollars associated with creating new institution from scratch.

The Libs then essentially called for 'bids' from institutions and cities on what to build and where.

Third, one bid has been previously approved a new York U/Seneca campus in Markham

Brampton has been one of the other key 'bids'; along with Milton (though heavying lobbying has been happening from Barrie as well, amongst others)

Having a degree-granting uni does confer some opportunities for a municipality. Beyond 'prestige'; there's the direct employment by the campus; the nightlife and vibrancy
that can come from a sizable student population; and it does show up as pre-condtion from some businesses when considering where to locate an office.

In that context, it does make sense to consider the value of servicing the largest un-served portion of the GTA with its own campus.

I did note with some curiosity in the article a desire to see medical studies be part of the offer; if by that they mean medical school........

I think York would throw a fit as they've wanted one for years and keep getting told 'no'; and Ryerson isn't even in that business........yet.

Though they do have nursing programs.
 

DKsan

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I did note with some curiosity in the article a desire to see medical studies be part of the offer; if by that they mean medical school........

I think York would throw a fit as they've wanted one for years and keep getting told 'no'; and Ryerson isn't even in that business........yet.

Though they do have nursing programs.
The city doesn't particularly want a medical school. They want to complement the focus on life sciences, including research and development, of which there are a few big firms in Brampton, Dynacare probably being one of the biggest and most prominent.

On a side note, here's a response many of us in the media (presumably everyone else got this too) received from the University of Toronto.

Also: shouldn't this be in Projects/Construction?
 

TOareaFan

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I didn't go to York University even though it's the closest school to where I live. No, instead I went to U of T because that's where I wanted to study. So even if Brampton gets a campus, that doesn't mean that most residents will stop going somewhere else for their education.
The problem with not having a campus/school is that it becomes a one way street.....having one does not guarantee (nor should it be the goal) that all of your local residents go to school here....but if the school is programmed properly/attractively it will be a choice for some students from other areas. As it sits now...100% of university attending students from Brampton leave town to go to school (either for the entire school year or on a daily basis via the Zum to York or GO to UofT) and exactly 0% of students from other places come to Brampton on the same basis.

So, we export our brightest and best (and I must say that, for an old guy, I am very impressed by the talented youth we in Brampton are sending out to the world) and get to import none of the brightest and best from other communities.

I, personally, would far prefer a stand alone new institution (or just the upgrading of Sheridan to a full University with its main campus in Brampton) but if it must be a satellite of an existing uni...Ryerson is a pretty good choice.

My biggest fear is that we are going to really muck up the location. We have a tendency to try and shoe horn every bit of public investment into the DT area......we try to make the foot fit the shoe rather than getting the shoe choice right in the first place. I can't think of an area anywhere near here where the public investment so far outweighs the private investment.

I don't think DT rates any higher than 4th in potential locations for this campus....but I am getting the vibes that there is going to pressure exerted to bring it downtown.
 

salsa

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The problem with not having a campus/school is that it becomes a one way street.....having one does not guarantee (nor should it be the goal) that all of your local residents go to school here....but if the school is programmed properly/attractively it will be a choice for some students from other areas. As it sits now...100% of university attending students from Brampton leave town to go to school (either for the entire school year or on a daily basis via the Zum to York or GO to UofT) and exactly 0% of students from other places come to Brampton on the same basis.

So, we export our brightest and best (and I must say that, for an old guy, I am very impressed by the talented youth we in Brampton are sending out to the world) and get to import none of the brightest and best from other communities.

I, personally, would far prefer a stand alone new institution (or just the upgrading of Sheridan to a full University with its main campus in Brampton) but if it must be a satellite of an existing uni...Ryerson is a pretty good choice.

My biggest fear is that we are going to really muck up the location. We have a tendency to try and shoe horn every bit of public investment into the DT area......we try to make the foot fit the shoe rather than getting the shoe choice right in the first place. I can't think of an area anywhere near here where the public investment so far outweighs the private investment.

I don't think DT rates any higher than 4th in potential locations for this campus....but I am getting the vibes that there is going to pressure exerted to bring it downtown.
If not downtown, then which locations do you prefer?
 

TOareaFan

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If not downtown, then which locations do you prefer?
My personal favourite is near the Bramalea City Centre (re-working/expanding the Civic centre initially and then as campus grows working with Morguard to intesify the east end of their property)....but I see a lot of merit in the old OPP lands as well and I think there are some very exciting opportunities around Gateway (steeles/Hurontario). I would put all 3 of those above any potential sites in DT Brampton. I hate that some have floated out the Bramalea GO station area...that seems an awful place to me...but those 3 I mention have superiority over DT and DT may slip to 5th if there is opportunity to expand current Sheridan campus (I really haven't looked at that one much so I am not ready to push DT into 5th).
 
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ShonTron

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It need not be downtown, though that's my preference, but it needs to be in a place that has transit and compatible land uses. As RioCan is looking to redevelop at least part of Shoppers World, it could be a good site, easy to get from other Sheridan campuses, and not affected by Brampton's LRT indecision.

Other potential sites include the area near Bramalea Station (Canadian Tire's warehouse is moving to Caledon), though it would have very few compatible uses apart from the GO station, and the Flower City Community site at McLaughlin and Queen (former OPP property owned by the city), which isn't too far from downtown and the GO station - a 30 minute walk.

But the last thing Brampton and Ryerson needs is a crappy greenfield campus like Lakehead Orillia.
 

TOareaFan

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It need not be downtown, though that's my preference, but it needs to be in a place that has transit and compatible land uses. As RioCan is looking to redevelop at least part of Shoppers World, it could be a good site, easy to get from other Sheridan campuses, and not affected by Brampton's LRT indecision.

Other potential sites include the area near Bramalea Station (Canadian Tire's warehouse is moving to Caledon), though it would have very few compatible uses apart from the GO station, and the Flower City Community site at McLaughlin and Queen (former OPP property owned by the city), which isn't too far from downtown and the GO station - a 30 minute walk.

But the last thing Brampton and Ryerson needs is a crappy greenfield campus like Lakehead Orillia.
Like I said, I can see potential in almost all of those (although I will disagree with the Bramalea GO one).....one site that never gets discussed is the Police HQ at 7750 Hurontario...that is a large space already in public hands (unlike RioCan's Shopper's world) and will have some interesting transit service.....just a thought that never seems to get mentioned.

I just don't see (and have yet to be shown) a coherent plan for how a downtown site would work.
 

ShonTron

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Like I said, I can see potential in almost all of those (although I will disagree with the Bramalea GO one).....one site that never gets discussed is the Police HQ at 7750 Hurontario...that is a large space already in public hands (unlike RioCan's Shopper's world) and will have some interesting transit service.....just a thought that never seems to get mentioned.

I just don't see (and have yet to be shown) a coherent plan for how a downtown site would work.
Ryerson knows how to operate within a downtown core. It would have to be made up of separate buildings and sites within the core: Nelson Square, the GO Station and Metrolinx's newly acquired properties, the old Hewetson Shoe Factory, etc. It depends on the size of the campus that's built, but downtown can work.

I don't like a potential Bramalea GO site (it's a terrible area for getting around without a car), but it does have land and it has transit connections. It would still be better than many post-secondary education institutions.
 
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salsa

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My personal favourite is near the Bramalea City Centre (re-working/expanding the Civic centre initially and then as campus grows working with Morguard to intesify the east end of their property)....but I see a lot of merit in the old OPP lands as well and I think there are some very exciting opportunities around Gateway (steeles/Hurontario). I would put all 3 of those above any potential sites in DT Brampton. I hate that some have floated out the Bramalea GO station area...that seems an awful place to me...but those 3 I mention have superiority over DT and DT may slip to 5th if there is opportunity to expand current Sheridan campus (I really haven't looked at that one much so I am not ready to push DT into 5th).
It's unclear to me why you're not in favour of a downtown location. I feel that a campus there could inject some much needed street life throughout the day, provide a nice urban environment for the students compared to the usual suburban stuff, and would be very well connected by transit (two way GO service, LRT, Zum). Seems pretty ideal to me. If not then my second choice would be Shoppers World, which would help kickstart the redevelopment of a large property next to the planned LRT.
 
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