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Bloor-Yonge Station Capacity Enhancement

Northern Light

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Speaking of the above report.... on Yonge (Line 1) capacity expansion....


Stations identified in the report as priorities for additional exits and/or capacity expansion include:

Implement station enhancements (additional vertical circulation elements, second exits) at priority stations (e.g. King, Dundas, College, St George, St Andrew and Queen’s Park
 

reteequa

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Too far away. Ryerson's site at Gould was plausible, but it will eventually happen for both platforms, likely at the 335 site, one day (east side of Yonge, S. side of Gould and at a development on Yonge, N. of Edward.

In a report to the TTC out just this afternoon, Dundas is identified at one of the stations in need of a second exit/expansion.


I really wish the did it at the Ryerson SLC. 335 is becoming a pot shop so that might not happen for a while.
 

steveintoronto

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Edward Skira said:
That's also before contemplating what Doug Ford's team has planned. Seems strange to be announcing plans when the city probably won't have control for much longer.
Quite the opposite. Announcing solutions to problems with expectations of another party paying for them is exactly what I would expect.
Read @Edward Skira 's post this morning, and meant to post what I'm about to do now, but caught up on some of the other posts first, and @rbt says it in so many words but from another angle, with all three of us in cynical agreement of what appears to be fantastic (in the true sense of the word):

This must be a Poison Pill! There's no way the City can afford this, and there's no way the price on this won't skyrocket, so many things can go wrong, and will go wrong. The TTC excels at going wrong.

The only logic I can see in this is a moving rearguard action on Tory's part, even as he preaches co-operation, or as a last ditch effort to control some of the narrative. It does not bode well. It's like going to Reno with the money from the bank before they call in the loan. And it's like redecorating the entrance to the old VW van to get people in and out faster. It won't carry any more people, go any faster, or stop at more places. Only a new van can do that. But some think they can refashion old Bertha to make her do more.

Improve the seating and stop the water coming in? Very laudable investments. But not a $B+ in trying to make it into a sports car.

You know, I'm absolutely no fan of the Ford Fiasco wagon either, but doing the von Munchaussen Manoeuvre to dislodge stuck fantasies in the windpipe really doesn't go down well. It causes indigestion...

I say fie on all of them. Bring on the Private Investors, I'm resigned to it, and done right, ironically there'll actually be far more accountability to the Public's need. Get the Relief Line done and done by people who know how to do it from beginning to end, like they've done in other cities. And from their own pockets by and large. Will they reap the rewards? If they build something wanted and affordable, then yes. Considering the alternatives are so problematic, and take forever, it's a bit of a no-brainer.
 
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steveintoronto

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I don’t think who controls it changes the absolute need to do this. But that may be too rational.
The ultimate control? Money. Show me the money! That being said, the Province is tight, if not broke, too. How incredibly easy we are to be misled.

Face up to it: There's buckets of money out there, just looking to be invested. In private hands. It's not like other cities in far better run nations than ours haven't used Private Investment to build better cities. My concern is that it be this present set of Cons in power when Investment does build. Even well run Conservative administrations in better run cities and nations advise on the need for careful control and oversight on P3. Do it right, and we all win. And therein lies the challenge. The Premier can't even run a label company with his own name on it.
 

thettctransitfanatic

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Given the typical timeline of thing getting built in this place, I will check back in 10 years and this thing will still be in design, I mean, if we are lucky.
Check back in 30 or 40. Probably in 40, it will built, if we are lucky as you were saying. Until then, who knows what they expect to do.
 

Northern Light

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Steve Munro is out w/Part 2 of his analysis of the big transit report to Exec. Ctte.

He looks at Bloor-Yonge in this one along w/the RL and Smart Track

 

WislaHD

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I still think that the money would be better spent in the short-term on extension of the Ontario Line to Sheppard or even Finch, than on Bloor-Yonge capacity enhancements.

Both will be needed long-term, but if it is a matter of prioritization of budget, I would take expansion of rapid transit service that intercepts busy bus routes from Line 1 over upgrades to a station.
 

dowlingm

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For those who are advocating solutions which involve extended full closure of Yonge-Bloor, consider how even now the TTC is pussyfooting around closing Eglinton-St Clair to do a proper job of undercutting the Yonge Line. Y-B is the sciatic nerve of the system and will be closed only to minimal extents.

@aquateam was looking for attention upthread with wasn't relief Line supposed to avoid this. Well, to a certain extent it was, but then the City (under Mayors "Downtown Has Enough Subways" Ford and "SmartTrack will relieve" Tory) didn't build it. Now a decade has passed and Crosstown is nearly open.

Someone else observed something along the lines that B-Y is almost unsafe. It is unsafe now; the fact that no-one has yet been harmed does not indicate otherwise, merely that all the holes in the Swiss cheese have yet to line up. We are already seeing instances of TTC bypassing Yonge on L2 due to unsafe crowding.

As a user of B-Y an average of 10/weekly, this project can't start fast enough, but given the timeframes TTC needs to urgently explore how to enhance surface alternatives like Bay, Sherbourne and 504/505/510 if for no other reason that they will be needed to absorb construction impacts to the extent TTC is unable to avoid them.
 

TransitBart

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For those who are advocating solutions which involve extended full closure of Yonge-Bloor, consider how even now the TTC is pussyfooting around closing Eglinton-St Clair to do a proper job of undercutting the Yonge Line. Y-B is the sciatic nerve of the system and will be closed only to minimal extents.

@aquateam was looking for attention upthread with wasn't relief Line supposed to avoid this. Well, to a certain extent it was, but then the City (under Mayors "Downtown Has Enough Subways" Ford and "SmartTrack will relieve" Tory) didn't build it. Now a decade has passed and Crosstown is nearly open.

Someone else observed something along the lines that B-Y is almost unsafe. It is unsafe now; the fact that no-one has yet been harmed does not indicate otherwise, merely that all the holes in the Swiss cheese have yet to line up. We are already seeing instances of TTC bypassing Yonge on L2 due to unsafe crowding.

As a user of B-Y an average of 10/weekly, this project can't start fast enough, but given the timeframes TTC needs to urgently explore how to enhance surface alternatives like Bay, Sherbourne and 504/505/510 if for no other reason that they will be needed to absorb construction impacts to the extent TTC is unable to avoid them.
Well expressed.
 

steveintoronto

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As a user of B-Y an average of 10/weekly, this project can't start fast enough, but given the timeframes TTC needs to urgently explore how to enhance surface alternatives like Bay, Sherbourne and 504/505/510 if for no other reason that they will be needed to absorb construction impacts to the extent TTC is unable to avoid them.
I don't know how they can do it. Not saying it's impossible, but there's nothing presented at this time to offer assurance. I'm so skeptical as to think that it is best to wait until some heavy by-pass can be in place, Relief Line being one, but I'm also skeptical on that too...

Considering this is being costed at a $B (probably twice that when all is done) you'd think some serious plan would be in place costed at a fraction of that. Even a tenth is $100M, and surely something meaningful can be done with that?

The term 'Conundrum' is ringing...
 

Northern Light

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I don't know how they can do it. Not saying it's impossible, but there's nothing presented at this time to offer assurance. I'm so skeptical as to think that it is best to wait until some heavy by-pass can be in place, Relief Line being one, but I'm also skeptical on that too...

Considering this is being costed at a $B (probably twice that when all is done) you'd think some serious plan would be in place costed at a fraction of that. Even a tenth is $100M, and surely something meaningful can be done with that?

The term 'Conundrum' is ringing...
Given what is seen as needed to relieve congestion at this station, a new lower level platform (the alternative would be widening the existing platform, which would mean track relocation, which would require a long shut down)
; along with new vertical circulation, and holding capacity for the upper platform as well; I don't see how 100M is remotely realistic.

The closest comparison project would be the TTC's expansion of its Union Station, with a new platform. That was $137.5M, and several years ago.

But I don't think its sufficient to say 200M with inflation, as this would be a more complex project.

It would involve off-set platforms on the lower level, the work would be performed at greater depth, would include work in an area now within tunnel; and would also interfere with and likely require at least minor alterations to foundation of between 1-3 properties.

All in a site that is busier than TTC Union, with 4 tracks, not 2.

I'm not sure 1B is the right number either, but we're at a very early estimate stage, so they'd be right to err to the high side.
 

innsertnamehere

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Exciting stuff. Bloor-Yonge is gunna be a mess for a while I guess.. With this and the Ontario Line, hopefully we will finally see some movement on passenger crowding.
 

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