Northern Light
Superstar
This is a bizarre post, on several levels.
There's try to keep the conversation thoughtful and grounded in reality.
Toronto Billy Bishop Toronto City Airport | ?m | ?s | Ports Toronto | Arup
This is a bizarre post, on several levels.
There's try to keep the conversation thoughtful and grounded in reality.
sche
Active Member
Well I'm not sure if it's that nice, Chicago's Lake Shore is even worse than Toronto's Lakeshore imo. Really sucks to cross; it's like a 10 lane pseudo freeway. There entire area is also filled with 6+ lane roads. There's even double left turn lanes and channelized right turn lanes!
The large areas of greenspace by the waterfront are really nice though.
allengeorge
Senior Member
It does have a lot of great tourist attractions in close proximity, as well as a great view of the city, which is what I think sticks in everyone's head. You don't get the same feel on Toronto's waterfront.
OTOH, I do find parts of Toronto's waterfront way better integrated into the city itself, which is really nice. Do wish that there was nicer retail along QQ and that Lakeshore was reduced in size.
OTOH, I do find parts of Toronto's waterfront way better integrated into the city itself, which is really nice. Do wish that there was nicer retail along QQ and that Lakeshore was reduced in size.
robmausser
Senior Member
The real reason the waterfront is so nice in Chicago is because they had a fire that basically decimated the entire waterfront. Now, they did the right thing by making it a park after the fire, but it still was a rather opportunistic situation.
Toronto could have a nicer waterfront even with Billy Bishop if they kicked all the house owners out of Wards and built a bridge/tunnel from the Portlands to the Island, and continued the Billy Bishop tunnel so that it could be used as a pedestrian tunnel to the island.
The major problem with the Island is access. You could turn it into a waterfront like Chicagos.
But I digress.
christiesplits
Senior Member
My hunch is that Porter shuts down in a few months OR gets bought by WestJet or Air Canada. Either way, I think we've seen the end of Porter the raccoon.
Andy_in_Toronto
Active Member
Absolutely true. Porter was well liked by business clients flying to NYC and Montreal. E.g. to the RBC office in NYC/ Toronto meetings. Also I was travelling last year weekly to Montreal for business. Ticket prices didn’t matter much. This all stopped. The major banks haven’t people coming to the office until spring 2021. This can be very much extended. No airline can survive that long as business travel to pick up will take years and a significant percentage of meetings and work will be done online.
Also the Toronto Island Airport got renovated and expanded recently. This can only be pay off with higher levels of travellers which is now unrealistic even more.
Sad to say, but Porter and Toronto Island airport business case is gone. Sure, depends on government subsidy, but that only can prolong the suffering. Also with the UPE train many started to preferring YYZ. That already threatened the Island airport.
Also the Toronto Island Airport got renovated and expanded recently. This can only be pay off with higher levels of travellers which is now unrealistic even more.
Sad to say, but Porter and Toronto Island airport business case is gone. Sure, depends on government subsidy, but that only can prolong the suffering. Also with the UPE train many started to preferring YYZ. That already threatened the Island airport.
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picard102
Senior Member
Who is preferring YYZ? Pearson is a zoo.
Johnny Au
Senior Member
Note that Porter flights to NYC are to EWR, which involves taking an NJ Transit train to Manhattan.
Andy_in_Toronto
Active Member
I flew to EWR many times and had much better experience compared to LaGardia where there is only one runway that can cause to flight delays. The train from EWR to Manhattan is great and not even costly.
afransen
Senior Member
I had a layover in Laguardia that was astonishingly bad--reminded me a Greyhound terminal. It kills me that flying to smaller US cities in the Great Lakes area is so painful (flying through Philly or NYC). I spent a day travelling to Columbus, wondering if I should have just driven.
Tuscani01
Senior Member
I wouldn't be so certain of that. Porter has cash behind it, and very few costs right now since operations have been shut down. It's cash bleed at the moment is minimal compared to airlines like WestJet and AC who continue to have large payrolls and continue to run some routes that aren't being well used at the moment. I believe Porter also runs the Island airport, no? If so, its still making money from private flights using the airport, which seems to be busier than ever in that regard based on just a few hours of watching take-offs and landings.
robmausser
Senior Member
This is just one example. The flight to Chicago is actually better than most because it lands in Midway, which is smaller and closer than O'Hare.
Bureaucromancer
Active Member
They don't own the airport itself, but I believe they do the terminal, and definitely the FBO and most other ground operations. I definitely see them dumping assets before going to an outright shutdown.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
I've flown To/through New York twice and both times was EWR. Once was en route to Europe through a connection, so I didn't leave the airport, and another time on Porter to visit NYC. The airport is far from grand but is functional. Typically I've driven when going to NYC though so I haven't had to fly there much.
I would have just driven to Columbus, especially if I couldn't grab a direct flight. That would be a pain if you just have a business meeting there or something though, I'm almost surprised there isn't a direct flight there.
afransen
Senior Member
There are, but few, and they tend to sell out. So travelling without a lot of notice (typical for business travel) it is hit and miss. I was traveling for a conference, which probably caused a surge in TO-Columbus traffic. I think there was through Philly and back was through Laguardia. Even on those routes AC ran tiny planes (~40 seater 1+2). The single seat reminded me of a business jet, but less legroom. My employer is funny about expensing long-distance mileage so I would have had to rent a vehicle and deal with parking at the destination, which would have also been quite inconvenient. Off topic, but while I was in Columbus, I was struck by how the area around the conference zipped up at 6pm. Couldn't even get a coffee. Even Kitchener Waterloo and St Catharines has 24h coffee shops.