slowtyper
New Member
Besides craigslist, mls (icx.ca), and driving around desired neighborhoods, any other ways to look for a retail space that may have missed the radar?
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Best place to look for retail space for lease?
- Thread starter slowtyper
- Start date
cdr108
Senior Member
you could also try kijiji.
what areas are you considering?
i know a space on the Danforth by Carrot Common that may be coming up in spring 2010 .
what areas are you considering?
i know a space on the Danforth by Carrot Common that may be coming up in spring 2010 .
makattack
New Member
Best bet is to use a good broker.
Glen
Senior Member
What area are you looking for and how much space?
slowtyper
New Member
Thanks for the suggestions and the offer. Unfortunately the danforth is too east for me. I'm looking for an area in the west or smack dab downtown...but I'll be open to other areas but not in the beaches/leslieville/east end areas.
I'm looking at a space I like at richmond and spadina but thats a bit too rich for me. Rent there is like 4800/month I think....I was hoping for $3000 and under monthly rent.
I'm looking for between 800-2000 sqft...somewhere close to people with $$$ and willing to spend on quality!
I'm looking at a space I like at richmond and spadina but thats a bit too rich for me. Rent there is like 4800/month I think....I was hoping for $3000 and under monthly rent.
I'm looking for between 800-2000 sqft...somewhere close to people with $$$ and willing to spend on quality!
w.ll.am
Active Member
There's spaces under 38 The Esplanade. Sorry I don't know the rates off hand but it's also a particular area too... not super high in foot traffic if that's what you need.
It's close to the Sony centre and Kensington market. It's probably more affordable then high flow traffic areas.
You'll get theatre traffic, nearby shopper traffic and the stores aren't particularly affordable, pub traffic from businesses after work, mmmm... not bad overall I'd say if the price is right.
It's close to the Sony centre and Kensington market. It's probably more affordable then high flow traffic areas.
You'll get theatre traffic, nearby shopper traffic and the stores aren't particularly affordable, pub traffic from businesses after work, mmmm... not bad overall I'd say if the price is right.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
You should look at places that are up and coming. Especially, if there are plans for residential nearby, but preferable medium and high density. Low density means that the people will be driving away from the area to shop, and not in the neighbourhood. Look at the foot traffic.
cdr108
Senior Member
is your $3000 budget just rent or inclusive of TMI?
do you require a main floor storefront space?
it seems you have opposing objectives ... cheap rent for a large space in a prime area where people have $$$.
cdr108
Senior Member
Storefront rents
there was an article in the Globe and Mail about Pages and storefront rents:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/rent-hike-will-close-the-book-on-pages/article1213364/
Rent hike will close the book on Pages
Venerable Queen Street bookseller looking for a cheaper space as chain stores drive up prices on desirable strip
JENNIFER MACMILLAN AND JOHN BARBER
Friday's Globe and Mail
Last updated on Wednesday, Jul. 15, 2009 04:33AM EDT
Atom Egoyan might never have made his award-winning film The Sweet Hereafter if it wasn't for Pages Books and Magazines and its owner, Marc Glassman.
The acclaimed director's wife, actress Arsinée Khanjian, was shopping in the store on Queen Street West for a gift for her husband when Mr. Glassman made a recommendation.
"He suggested to Arsinée that I would like this book," Mr. Egoyan recalls.
Mr. Glassman was right. Mr. Egoyan was enchanted by Russell Banks' novel and turned it into a film of the same name. The Sweet Hereafter went on to win the Grand Jury Prize at the Cannes Film Festival, a slew of Genie awards and picked up Oscar nominations for best director and best adapted screenplay.
And it all started at Pages, the independent bookstore that has served as a hub for Toronto's artistic community for 30 years. Mr. Glassman says his shop, kitty-corner to the MuchMusic studios, has weathered a lot of changes over the years, including the construction of a Chapters just a block away. But now Pages' landlord wants to increase the rent, and Mr. Glassman says his business just can't afford the hike. He plans to shut the shop for good on Aug. 31.
The neighbourhood has changed dramatically over the years as chain retailers such as The Gap and French Connection have moved in, driving up rents and squeezing out independent retailers like Mr. Glassman.
"I'm paying about $235,000 a year in rent and taxes, which is a crazy sum to be where I am," Mr. Glassman said. "My landlord believes he can get $400,000, which amounts to $100 a square foot."
Commercial rents along Queen Street West between University and Spadina Avenues have indeed skyrocketed in recent years, says John Crombie, national retail director for Cushman & Wakefield LePage.
"It's hitting $140 a square foot near Spadina," Mr. Crombie said, adding that the same places were just $30 to $40 a square foot in 2000.
"In retailing, there tends to be a herd mentality: One company makes the leap and everybody else thinks they should be there too."
Toronto musician and writer Dave Bidini says Pages was a place that had the ability to reach beyond the literary set and draw in bands that played in the area. Mr. Bidini, founder of the Rheostatics, remembers "buying a lot of formative books" in the store, which prides itself on its selection on topics such as cultural theory and Eastern philosophy.
"Out of all the people I knew on that strip and the places I went to from 1980 on, Pages was the last standing," Mr. Bidini said.
"I guess Queen Street West is officially dead now."
He credits Mr. Glassman for dedicating one window in the shop to displays from local artists, which Mr. Bidini used to full advantage in 2007 to launch his latest book. He perched himself in the window and did a marathon reading of all 311 pages of Around the World in 57 ½ Gigs for passers-by.
"I stood in the window for about six hours. It was pretty cool. Well actually, it was hot. Very hot," Mr. Bidini said.
Pages' popular This Is Not A Reading Series will live on after the store closes, Mr. Glassman said. The series features writers doing onstage performances that involve anything but reading their works at venues throughout Toronto.
Mr. Glassman says he hasn't completely thrown in the towel - he has been looking at areas such as Parkdale and Leslieville for a possible new location, but says the rents there are almost as high and the spaces available aren't as big. In two years of searching, he has not found a place that works.
Mr. Egoyan said he's holding out hope that Mr. Glassman's bookstore will find a way to stick around.
"He's one of the few [retailers] that prided himself on giving explicit access to counterculture," Mr. Egoyan said. "It's unthinkable that the city wouldn't be able to sustain that sort of conduit."
******
Storefront rents
The areas with the most expensive rents for retail storefront spaces in Toronto, all prices per year.
Bloor Street between Yonge Street and Avenue Road: $300 per square foot
Queen Street West between John Street and Spadina Avenue: $100-$140 per square foot
Yonge Street between Eglinton Avenue and Lawrence Avenue, north corridor: $70 per square foot
Intersection of Yonge and Dundas Streets: $50 to $70 per square foot
Source: John Crombie, Cushman & Wakefield LePage.
there was an article in the Globe and Mail about Pages and storefront rents:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/rent-hike-will-close-the-book-on-pages/article1213364/
Rent hike will close the book on Pages
Venerable Queen Street bookseller looking for a cheaper space as chain stores drive up prices on desirable strip
JENNIFER MACMILLAN AND JOHN BARBER
Friday's Globe and Mail
Last updated on Wednesday, Jul. 15, 2009 04:33AM EDT
Atom Egoyan might never have made his award-winning film The Sweet Hereafter if it wasn't for Pages Books and Magazines and its owner, Marc Glassman.
The acclaimed director's wife, actress Arsinée Khanjian, was shopping in the store on Queen Street West for a gift for her husband when Mr. Glassman made a recommendation.
"He suggested to Arsinée that I would like this book," Mr. Egoyan recalls.
Mr. Glassman was right. Mr. Egoyan was enchanted by Russell Banks' novel and turned it into a film of the same name. The Sweet Hereafter went on to win the Grand Jury Prize at the Cannes Film Festival, a slew of Genie awards and picked up Oscar nominations for best director and best adapted screenplay.
And it all started at Pages, the independent bookstore that has served as a hub for Toronto's artistic community for 30 years. Mr. Glassman says his shop, kitty-corner to the MuchMusic studios, has weathered a lot of changes over the years, including the construction of a Chapters just a block away. But now Pages' landlord wants to increase the rent, and Mr. Glassman says his business just can't afford the hike. He plans to shut the shop for good on Aug. 31.
The neighbourhood has changed dramatically over the years as chain retailers such as The Gap and French Connection have moved in, driving up rents and squeezing out independent retailers like Mr. Glassman.
"I'm paying about $235,000 a year in rent and taxes, which is a crazy sum to be where I am," Mr. Glassman said. "My landlord believes he can get $400,000, which amounts to $100 a square foot."
Commercial rents along Queen Street West between University and Spadina Avenues have indeed skyrocketed in recent years, says John Crombie, national retail director for Cushman & Wakefield LePage.
"It's hitting $140 a square foot near Spadina," Mr. Crombie said, adding that the same places were just $30 to $40 a square foot in 2000.
"In retailing, there tends to be a herd mentality: One company makes the leap and everybody else thinks they should be there too."
Toronto musician and writer Dave Bidini says Pages was a place that had the ability to reach beyond the literary set and draw in bands that played in the area. Mr. Bidini, founder of the Rheostatics, remembers "buying a lot of formative books" in the store, which prides itself on its selection on topics such as cultural theory and Eastern philosophy.
"Out of all the people I knew on that strip and the places I went to from 1980 on, Pages was the last standing," Mr. Bidini said.
"I guess Queen Street West is officially dead now."
He credits Mr. Glassman for dedicating one window in the shop to displays from local artists, which Mr. Bidini used to full advantage in 2007 to launch his latest book. He perched himself in the window and did a marathon reading of all 311 pages of Around the World in 57 ½ Gigs for passers-by.
"I stood in the window for about six hours. It was pretty cool. Well actually, it was hot. Very hot," Mr. Bidini said.
Pages' popular This Is Not A Reading Series will live on after the store closes, Mr. Glassman said. The series features writers doing onstage performances that involve anything but reading their works at venues throughout Toronto.
Mr. Glassman says he hasn't completely thrown in the towel - he has been looking at areas such as Parkdale and Leslieville for a possible new location, but says the rents there are almost as high and the spaces available aren't as big. In two years of searching, he has not found a place that works.
Mr. Egoyan said he's holding out hope that Mr. Glassman's bookstore will find a way to stick around.
"He's one of the few [retailers] that prided himself on giving explicit access to counterculture," Mr. Egoyan said. "It's unthinkable that the city wouldn't be able to sustain that sort of conduit."
******
Storefront rents
The areas with the most expensive rents for retail storefront spaces in Toronto, all prices per year.
Bloor Street between Yonge Street and Avenue Road: $300 per square foot
Queen Street West between John Street and Spadina Avenue: $100-$140 per square foot
Yonge Street between Eglinton Avenue and Lawrence Avenue, north corridor: $70 per square foot
Intersection of Yonge and Dundas Streets: $50 to $70 per square foot
Source: John Crombie, Cushman & Wakefield LePage.
Observer Walt
Senior Member
Location is absolutely crucial for retail. Focus on the demographics of the area, the amount of traffic (vehicular and pedestrian), and the street visibility. The actual amount of rent and TMI (operating expenses) is important too of course, but secondary to the actual location.
As already mentioned, there is a direct relationship between the quality of the location and the amount of rent you will pay.
Use a good broker.
As already mentioned, there is a direct relationship between the quality of the location and the amount of rent you will pay.
Use a good broker.
slowtyper
New Member
opposing objectives....no, I wouldn't say so at all. The objective is making money, so finding a "deal" on rent falls into that category as well doesn't it? And its all variable...for a better location, I'm looking at 800 or slightly less sqft which isn't that large and not really that out of my range. Of course I'd be willing to pay more for the right location as well, within reason. You make it sound like the only people who can get a good space are people who say "I'll pay whatever you want!".
I've seen a lot of locations at yonge and eglinton that I'm liking so far and the prices are pretty reasonable though I'd have to go smaller. Its possible since this is our second location we could trim our sqft needs if we have to for this one. Definitely not $70/sqft like the article above suggests, though that may be due to the spaces being on the smaller side.
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W. K. Lis
Superstar
What is the rent along St. Clair Avenue West? You may be able to get a good rent as the construction continues, and then open up after it has gone by. In which case the closer to a streetcar stop the better.
cdr108
Senior Member
opposing objective may not have been the right words ... maybe mutually exclusive items ... 2000 SF for $3000/m in prime area close to ppl with $$$ ...
that's like $18 psf per year (+ TMI or inclusive ?) ... maybe at Jane /Finch, we know how 'prime' that area is.
what's your idea of prime locations b/c i think you said you're somewhat new to the city?
you said areas in the west or smack dab downtown but that's pretty large geography and there are pockets of good and bad within.
from my understanding, beaches/leslieville/prime riverdale/danforth b/t broadview + pape areas are prime residential areas too ... but you seem adverse to them.
how much are the places you looked at asking for at Yonge/Eglinton area if not $70 psf as noted in the article?
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slowtyper
New Member
OK, that was the high end of my range which I guess I shouldn't have put down. I never said "prime area close to ppl with $$$"...just "close to people with $$$". Perhaps it wasn't clear but I meant if there is a space that is CLOSE to good areas but may not be a technically "prime" street, that may be acceptable as well and which is why I put a range on the sqft space.
For a better area obviously I would go to the low end or maybe even lower to say 700sqft minimum probably. I already said this in the last post. And I also said I could go up a bit more in rent, maybe 4000 and possibly even 5000/month if it really had to be done and it was an amazing space.
I know leslievillie is a good neighborhood, we already have 1 location there with very loyal customers which is why I am looking elsewhere.
Yes I am fairly new to the city (but the business I'm looking for has been in leslieville for a few years) which is why I am very open about locations. I'm looking at some on spadina and richmond, yonge and eglinton, yonge st claire....I'm not that familiar with western areas and am planning to go scouting locations maybe tomorrow morning. Any suggestions? I'm thinking somewhere close to all the condos popping up and might be convenient to catch some of the people who drive into the city from the west.
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androiduk
Senior Member
If you're doing well in Leslieville then you might as well stick with the same type of people. I would say, the type of people who live or shop in Leslieville can also be found around King/Spadina, Liberty Village, Queen West between Bathurst & Dufferin, Roncesvalles and finally the Junction.