News   Apr 26, 2024
 487     1 
News   Apr 26, 2024
 204     0 
News   Apr 26, 2024
 672     0 

Bell Fibre in older buildings

If a condo board wanted to add a new service they need a favourable vote by owners. In our condo the Board agreed to have the whole building 'wired' with fibre (at Bell's cost. This brought fibre to each Unit. Then the Board held info meetings and canvassed owners to see if there was interest in a building-wide high-speed internet contract. There was and we passed the necessary by-law with a very large majority. That was 2 years ago and residents are very happy.

I hope the Board discussed this with lawyers.

(1) They are required to allow 4 different providers to units (note there is uncertainty if the Board represents renters and as such they cannot make decisions for them)

(2) Are they trying to get around the rules? CRTC doesn't like that and the CRTC has very expansive rights to penalize bad behaviour

(3) If the condo is buying internet in bulk & reselling (including VOIP) are they a carrier and do they have to register with the CRTC? Do they have a right to monitor traffic? What are the end users rights?

Scary!
 
I hope the Board discussed this with lawyers.

(1) They are required to allow 4 different providers to units (note there is uncertainty if the Board represents renters and as such they cannot make decisions for them)

(2) Are they trying to get around the rules? CRTC doesn't like that and the CRTC has very expansive rights to penalize bad behaviour

(3) If the condo is buying internet in bulk & reselling (including VOIP) are they a carrier and do they have to register with the CRTC? Do they have a right to monitor traffic? What are the end users rights?

Scary!
1. Of course our Board discussed the Bell offer(and others) with our lawyers and owners, and made changes to the contract based on the lawyers' advice.
2. No. Under the Condo Act condo corporations can sign 'telecommunications agreements' (if allowed to under the Corporation's own by-laws. We actually adopted a new by-law - with the requisite 50% + owner support. (We got over 85% with one vote against and several who did not vote.) High speed internet then joined cable TV as a service provided to owners by the Corporation with the basic fee - in the case of cable - being part of the common expenses but charged equally to all owners rather than on the %ages laid down in the Declaration..
3. The arrangement is that the customers are the individual Unit owners but the fee is paid by the Corporation - for rentals the owners can have their tenants as the customer or can retain this themselves - most (all?) prefer to have the tenant being the customer.

We have had this now for 2 years and it is extremely popular with residents. The one no voter 2 years ago recently admitted they loved it!
 
If a condo board wanted to add a new service they need a favourable vote by owners. In our condo the Board agreed to have the whole building 'wired' with fibre (at Bell's cost.
Would that this were true, but methinks it depends on the existing bylaws of the condo corp. Only a minority of owners (and boards) give informed, critical thought to the consequences for competition and future pricing. The BELL marketing machine is adept at exploiting an ill-informed majority.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DSC
Would that this were true, but methinks it depends on the existing bylaws of the condo corp. Only a minority of owners (and boards) give informed, critical thought to the consequences for competition and future pricing. The BELL marketing machine is adept at exploiting an ill-informed majority.

We are still waiting for Bell to come with the wires. It appears that the roll-out is proceeding at a snail's pace. We will maintain our cable contract when it comes up for renewal because so many people are older and think that streaming is what you do in the washroom. But after that contract expires, along with many of our older residents :oops: then I believe we can entertain a bulk bidding war between Rogers and Bell. Meantime, I expect that, as DSC explained, residents will be able to take advantage of a very good Bell wi-fi deal.

My understanding is -- and it's just a hunch -- that, as long as Rogers and Bell allow other carriers along their pipes, then no problem CRTC-wise. Is that incorrect?
 
We are still waiting for Bell to come with the wires. It appears that the roll-out is proceeding at a snail's pace. We will maintain our cable contract when it comes up for renewal because so many people are older and think that streaming is what you do in the washroom. But after that contract expires, along with many of our older residents :oops: then I believe we can entertain a bulk bidding war between Rogers and Bell. Meantime, I expect that, as DSC explained, residents will be able to take advantage of a very good Bell wi-fi deal.

My understanding is -- and it's just a hunch -- that, as long as Rogers and Bell allow other carriers along their pipes, then no problem CRTC-wise. Is that incorrect?
We are still waiting for Bell to come with the wires. It appears that the roll-out is proceeding at a snail's pace. We will maintain our cable contract when it comes up for renewal because so many people are older and think that streaming is what you do in the washroom. But after that contract expires, along with many of our older residents :oops: then I believe we can entertain a bulk bidding war between Rogers and Bell. Meantime, I expect that, as DSC explained, residents will be able to take advantage of a very good Bell wi-fi deal.

My understanding is -- and it's just a hunch -- that, as long as Rogers and Bell allow other carriers along their pipes, then no problem CRTC-wise. Is that incorrect?

The product BELL is installing is BELL Fibe(tm), which is *not* the same as FOC (fibre-optic cable). If this is indeed FOC to the units, can I expect to see an FOC media jack in my unit (rather than the usual RJ45)? Will this enable me to subscribe for multi-gigabit service over this connection. I doubt it.
 
I hope the Board discussed this with lawyers.

OK. Did a bit more research. DSC is correct. A condo board is permitted to buy telecommunications services (data, tv, etc) in bulk and include it as part of a condo fee.

Where it gets murky is if they then try to upsell various services. Per Ontario condo law they are permitted to. However, based on CRTC rules they could be either a reseller (data), a BDU (cable) or a CLEC (phone). Or all of the above. Each has distinct requirements under CRTC rules such as filing requirements, % of channels Cdn and various fees they may have to pay.

But if they are just marketing a 3rd party providers services (e.g. Bell) than Bell has all of those responsibilities.

Either way any person in the condo can decide to go with Rogers. Which may happen if Bell decides to overcharge for the extras. The user would still have to pay the condo fee but they can then contract with someone else. So if the condo decided to go with Bell and Bell technicians ripped out all of Rogers wires than the condo corp (or bell) would have to repair the Rogers cable to that one unit.
 
You should note that, under Section 97 of the Condominium Act "..., the corporation shall not make a substantial ...... change in a service that the corporation provides to the owners unless the owners who own at least 662/3 per cent of the units of the corporation vote in favour of approving it." That means that IF a Corporation wants to provide owners with internet (or cable) services as part of their monthly common element fees they need to hold a vote of ALL owners.
 
Bell's pricing is always expensive, and forces you to bundle with other useless services. I suffered from Bell's price secretly increase for a long time. Now I switch to CIK Fiber Optics Internet which offers exactly the same technology but a lower price. Hope more and more competition enable the market to lower the average price for fiber connection, and hope small ISPs like CIK Telecom that is able to fight again with monopoly big guys.
 
Hope more and more competition enable the market to lower the average price for fiber connection, and hope small ISPs like CIK Telecom that is able to fight again with monopoly big guys.
The handful of independent ISPs in Toronto that own their last-mile infrastructure are only in newer condo buildings, if I'm not mistaken. It's too pricey for these small ISPs to offer service outside of the densest areas of the city and therefore most people won't have access to cheaper FTTH options
 
Satellite internet is coming. OneWeb, Starlink, Project Kuiper, etc. I hope they crush the pricing of the big ISPs in Canada.
 
Satellite internet is coming. OneWeb, Starlink, Project Kuiper, etc. I hope they crush the pricing of the big ISPs in Canada.

Frankly, I'm not expecting much more than what Hughesnet and similar already offer but with much better ping times. They're still going to have massive bandwidth issues in urban environments, so it'll be priced to compete against rural alternatives. The entire GTA bandwidth for Starlink won't be much more than what Beanfield/Bell/Rogers run into a single building so for a quality network they'll need to restrict the customer base.

It'll be a great improvement for the cottage and probably your flight, but I doubt many will bother at home in a city.

Starlink with the optical interconnects would have been revolutionary (lower global latency than current ocean cables); many banks and investment firms would have paid $5M/month for a chunk of dedicated bandwidth for market making and arbitrage.
 
Last edited:
Starlink with the optical interconnects would have been revolutionary (lower global latency than current ocean cables); many banks and investment firms would have paid $5M/month for a chunk of dedicated bandwidth for market making and arbitrage.
I heard rumors they're planning to do the optical interconnects and move the non-optical satellites to a nearby orbital plane that has less demand for optical interconnects, and as backup/spares.

Remember, this is a >1000 satellites/year launch cadience, using assembly-line-built satellites.

They plan to replace Starlink satellites frequently and jiggle them around a bit. In five years, all of North America will probably be covered by optical-interconnected Starlinks. They are planning to launch continuously in a satellite-replacing endeavour, in a continous-integration and continuous-upgrading basis. Not launch it all monolithically like Iridium or GPS.

They're still going to have massive bandwidth issues in urban environments, so it'll be priced to compete against rural alternatives.
I'll agree with that assessment. The total bandwidth of a single IKEA flatpacked satellite is very tough.

However, it's also the first time that phased array antennas will be commoditized, with simultaneous send/receive to multiple satellites simultaneously. The "UFO on a stick" antennas are likely hybrids (partial phased array, partial mechanically steered). It is like your WiFi MU-MIMO, except on steroids, and to multiple satellites simultaneously & concurrently in multlink bandwidth transfer.

Also, while they're doing the base station thing -- there is the flexibility for users to also be crowdsourced base stations themselves. Downtown urban base stations will have the advantage of being able to do secondary connections -- which Starlink will probably give some of them at no extra charge, to help you be a crowdsourced based station. Basically buy you a Business Internet connection for just the price of a Starlink account, and you get 2 Internet connections -- on the condition your base station doubles as a crowdsourced backhaul for Starlink! This will somewhat increase urban capacity. It won't be a replacement for ground-based Gigabit Internet though. But it's one way Starlink can increase urban capacity somewhat, and may still be sufficiently competitive to ground Internet in lesser-density towns/cities such as Oakville.

Over time, with such sheer satellite count (5 figure count), that may start to serve downtown cores adequately. Especially with better phased array base station and crowdsourced backhauls, and later inter-satellite laser links.

I'll stick to ground-based gigabit though, but Starlink will easily blow away Hughes in a few years. What they're doing is essentially revolutionary -- literally "IKEA satellites" flatpacked (60 per rocket) + phased array end-user base stations + mesh networked base stations + possible future crowdsourced backhauls + etc. Just the sheer number of satellites launched at once is jawdropping -- that's almost a whole Iridium constellation in one launch, at far more massive aggregate bandwidth than Iridium ever was able to give.
 
Last edited:

Back
Top