Altitude Condominiums (SCC, Conservatory Group, 19s)

[wyliepoon]

Brought to you by Conservatory Group. I guess Skyscape now has a sister tower.

Rendering from today's Ming Pao newspaper (full page ad)

 

[DaninToronto]

ZZZZ... I guess its really not that suprising anymore. Base needs work and I love the huge forest in the background.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

I know I've brought this up before, but STC condo renderings that show forests are reasonably accurate - there is a forest next door.

Names like Altitude and Skyscape remind me of 60 storey sliver condos in Hong Kong perched on hillsides.

 

[simply Dan]

At least most of the developer's second-rate buildings end up in Scarborough and not downtown. Do buyers in Scarborough not care about good design? Apparently not, since these projects sell so quickly.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

I don't think many buyers downtown care too much about design, either. The difference is that there's other people downtown holding developers responsible for design, which doesn't really happen in Scarborough, where condos are designed mainly to be affordable.

 

[simply Dan]

I don't think many buyers downtown care too much about design, either.

I completely disagree. If buyers didn't care about design, developers wouldn't be pressed to improve their projects year after year as they are currently doing. Even traditionally bland developers like Tridel are becoming more daring with their projects. Stylish and attractive buildings generally sell faster and for a higher price than badly designed developments in the core.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Of course some downtown buyers care about design...I never said otherwise.

Stylish and attractive buildings generally sell faster and for a higher price than badly designed developments in the core.

That principle holds true in the suburbs, but there's very few places outside of downtown where competition is fierce enough to drive condo differentiation through better design, especially since most suburban condo buyers' number one priority is affordability. The fact that's there's more design-conscious people downtown is not the only reason downtown condos are often better designed (and when some buildings are purchased mainly as investments or by foreigners, it may not be a significant reason at all). Add in a lack of NIMBYs, a lack of neighbourhood organizations and involvement, a lack of high-profile projects, a lack of stimulating urban environments, etc., and you have boring suburban condos.

 

[yyzer]

well.....there is one anomaly.....absoluteworld in mississauga.....aka marilyn....here we have a standard suburban project, suddenly injected with steroids through the design competition, and presto, it virtually sells out in about a week, at fifty percent more than the average price per square foot of anything else in Mississauga.....

Until absoluteworld, the average price in mississauga was about $200/sq ft...absoluteworld came on the market, and sold out at an average of $300/sq ft....if the typical unit was approx 1000 sq.ft, that's an extra $100,000 to the developer, per unit....i.e. sold at $300,000 versus $200,000...what gets interesting...there are a total of about 900 units in the two buildings.. meaning thats about a $90,000,000 premium for good design...sure there are increased costs associated with construction of extraordinary buildings, but I would wager that Fernbrook and Cityzen are making big money here.

So I wouldn't sell any suburban buyers short...I think absoluteworld is proof that good design will sell at a premium, no matter if it is in the core or the suburbs. The problem with downtown right now is that demand is so high, that developers can get away with trashy stuff, and it will still sell..just look at Liberty Village...

I wish all the developers would embrace better design as a tool to make more money, not just Fernbrook/Cityzen...

my 2 cents

 

[scarberiankhatru]

I was going to mention Absolute as one of the "very few places"...Mississauga Centre does have enough condos going up that a snazzily designed condo can compete well, and the buzz & design justified the boost in price. You certainly wouldn't see Absolute getting built in Woodbridge or Ajax.

There'll be more demands for better design if buyers are forking over many hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars (and there's dozens and dozens of such condos downtown), but most of the STC condo units and a majority of other suburban condo units are going for pretty dirt cheap...neither the developer nor the buyer will do much to spur better design at low price points.


Oh, and re: Altitude. I'm not sure exactly which plot of land it's getting built on, and I just missed the 190 Rocket today, so I tried to wander over there for a few minutes to find signs or ads for it. I say "tried" because a huge Tamil Tiger rally (over 5000 people) was going on in Albert Campbell Square. I couldn't get through the crowd and going around would have taken 10 minutes so I just went back to the bus station.

 

[Hipster Duck]

The quality of condo architecture seems to drop off in concentric waves away from an epicentre around King and Spadina.

The other notable suburban condo project was DiA. Concord Park Place might offer something exciting in the future.

 

[Edward]

I wouldn't be surprised if Concord Park Place resembled City Place.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

I bet ParkPlace will look *exactly* like CityPlace...there's a few Vancouver-style buildings in North York Centre, so there is precedence.

DIA's design is mainly developer-driven, not buyer-driven...the building took a long time to sell enough units to begin construction - the boom in condos between North York Centre station and Finch must have slowed sales.

 

[Solaris]

October 11 2008 update

no Altitude to be seen on site



Paying respects to Skyscape (phase 1), it doesn't look all that bad IMO

Found this nice little putting green in the back (that no residents use), but stellar views of some STCC condos (Residences of Consilium 1+2, Hillborough Court 1+2, Ellipse 1+2, May Tower 1+2)

 

[T-Squared]

^ wow, thanks Solaris, that's a Scarborough shot one rarely sees.

 

[Solaris]

Daily Commercial News

well this explains the lack of activity on the Altitude condos site

it appears that Conservatory Group has placed this project on hold ... thankfully, there are some definite targets dates purchasers can at least look forward to ~

*********
July 28, 2009

CONDOMINIUM APARTMENT BUILDING
Proj: 9062100-10
Scarborough, Metro Toronto Reg ON

Skyscape Altitude Phase II, 68 Grangeway Ave, McCowan Rd and Ellesmere Rd, M1T

$24,000,000 est
Start: May, 2010
Complete: August, 2011

Note: Project is on hold at the Owner. Project will proceed late 2009/early 2010. Owner will review project December 2009. Tender and construction schedules have not been determined. Further update early 2010.

Project: concrete slab on grade foundation, structural steel frame, masonry exterior, fuel fired heating system, pre-cast cladding system; interior flooring finishes will vary; gypsum board interior walls; proposed construction of a 222-unit condominium apartment building. Phase I of this project can be followed under report no 1310340.

Scope: 209,000 square feet; 20 storeys; 2 storeys below grade; 222 units; parking for 250 cars; 50 acres

http://dcnonl.com/cgi-bin/top10.pl?rm=show_top10_project&id=9c4f3bca44b2b4e5d8bce52401db90635ae5d7f3&projectid=9062100