45 The Esplanade (Republic/Silver) - Real Estate -

[Bibi L]

After looking at this, it appears that the parking garage will be shared with 25 The Esplanade, but not in the way it is currently being shared.
Currently, the parking lot under Novotel (45 The Esplanade) is already shared with 25 The Esplanade. However, Novotel (45 The Esplanade) only has access to P1. The entire parking lot is owned by Silver Hotel Group, which also owns 45 The Esplanade. None of the parking lot is owned by the condo board for 25.

However, 25 The Esplanade has a contract with Silver Hotel Group that reserves P2 and P3 for residents, accessible behind a gate. This means those levels are not public, unlike P1, which is public, for hotel residents (Novotel, 45 The Esplanade), office workers and retail at 35 The Esplanade (1st and 2nd floors of 25 The Esplanade), as well as for anyone else, since it’s public.

So that means, with this development, P1, P2, and P3 will all be shared, with P1 designated for residents of future 45 The Esplanade, visitor parking, and hotel parking, while P2 and P3 will primarily be for 45 The Esplanade residents and 25 The Esplanade’s current parking. Our parking won’t change much, except for how we will lose some spots, and P2/P3 will not be fully 25 The Esplanade parking only. P1 will still be public? Because hotel, visitor, and some 45 The Esplanade parking is still going to be there.

Currently, P2 and P3 being reserved for 25 The Esplanade residents has 244 monthly spots, but after the parking lot is severed there will only be 118 for 25 The Esplanade.

Looking at this for 45 The Esplanade, it shows 64 parking spots for 45 The Esplanade on P2. And 66 spots for P3.

Right now, 25 The Esplanade has 244 spots throughout P2 and P3, but after this, we’ll have 118. 45 The Esplanade throughout P2 and P3 will have 130 spots. Total will be 149.

 

[Bibi L]

This is confusing. After looking at the parking lot’s redevelopments, I noticed that they appear to only show the parking lot that is mostly under 45 The Esplanade, and not 25 The Esplanade. Remember both parking lots are connected and are under both buildings, and stretch all the way to both ends of buildings. I couldn’t find the ramp, and noticed that there are a lot of incoming changes to the lot. Here are their proposals to the garage, compared to the current layout.

Redesign of P1:

Redesign of P2:

Redesign of P3:

And here are my drawings of the current parking lot’s layout by memory.
We see a number of differences. First, we don’t even see any parts of the garage west of the ramp. On the far east, under Novotel, there’s an area “U-Turn”, which has no parking. In the redevelopment, we see towards the wall, bike storage, but also parking. The wall is also more slanted towards the west. Parking spots remain on the southern-most area, as well as the big amounts of parking spaces in the centre, where the lobby for 45 The Esplanade is. Stairwell in the centre area will remain as well, however, I do not see a stairwell in the north-eastern corner. I instead see locker rooms. Parking spots remain on the northern wall. South-western corner appears to have bike storage. In the centre area, there will be bike storage, close to the stairwell, as well as locker rooms. The garage currently does not have locker rooms, only bike rooms, because 25 The Esplanade mostly has storage rooms built into the units instead of somewhere in the parking lot. Which is nicer. Some smaller units have locker rooms in the hallways of the building. With the newer development, they will be adding locker rooms to the garage for residents of 45 The Esplanade.

Parking lot outline.

 

[mburrrrr]

This is confusing. After looking at the parking lot’s redevelopments, I noticed that they appear to only show the parking lot that is mostly under 45 The Esplanade, and not 25 The Esplanade. Remember both parking lots are connected and are under both buildings, and stretch all the way to both ends of buildings. I couldn’t find the ramp, and noticed that there are a lot of incoming changes to the lot. Here are their proposals to the garage, compared to the current layout.

Redesign of P1:

View attachment 581252

Redesign of P2:

View attachment 581253

Redesign of P3:

View attachment 581254

And here are my drawings of the current parking lot’s layout by memory.
We see a number of differences. First, we don’t even see any parts of the garage west of the ramp. On the far east, under Novotel, there’s an area “U-Turn”, which has no parking. In the redevelopment, we see towards the wall, bike storage, but also parking. The wall is also more slanted towards the west. Parking spots remain on the southern-most area, as well as the big amounts of parking spaces in the centre, where the lobby for 45 The Esplanade is. Stairwell in the centre area will remain as well, however, I do not see a stairwell in the north-eastern corner. I instead see locker rooms. Parking spots remain on the northern wall. South-western corner appears to have bike storage. In the centre area, there will be bike storage, close to the stairwell, as well as locker rooms. The garage currently does not have locker rooms, only bike rooms, because 25 The Esplanade mostly has storage rooms built into the units instead of somewhere in the parking lot. Which is nicer. Some smaller units have locker rooms in the hallways of the building. With the newer development, they will be adding locker rooms to the garage for residents of 45 The Esplanade.

View attachment 581258

View attachment 581255

Parking lot outline.

View attachment 581249

They will have full separation. Two car entrances. One new for 45. One existing for 25. No walking access. No sharing.

 

[Bibi L]

They will have full separation. Two car entrances. One new for 45. One existing for 25. No walking access. No sharing.

Thanks for the response. I’m not sure if 118 spots will be enough for our 571 units. I know our 224 reserved parking spots aren’t fully used, but cutting it in half might not be great. At least our parking will not be shared anymore, and will be fully private. That’s probably gonna add more security, and no more event parking, which opens our contracted private parking to the public. What happens to the ownership though? Currently Silver Hotel Group owns the whole lot, but now that it is being completely separated, it might change? Or maybe not. As Silver Hotel Group also owns the retail and office spaces for 25 The Esplanade. Looking at the parking for 45 The Esplanade, I didn’t notice any ramps. Are the ramps west of Church St and into the lane way? Or closer to our current ramp? Also, the only parking we’ll keep will be the one that’s under our building, which is the triangular part, the part not shown in the proposal for 45. If this proposal does get accepted and construction starts, how are they gonna separate the garage? Will we lose access to it when they demolish half of the garage? You know, it’s connected as one.

Lots of questions. Wonder how they’re gonna demolish half of our garage and separate it. Possibly losing access for a while…

 

[mburrrrr]

Thanks for the response. I’m not sure if 118 spots will be enough for our 571 units. I know our 224 reserved parking spots aren’t fully used, but cutting it in half might not be great. At least our parking will not be shared anymore, and will be fully private. That’s probably gonna add more security, and no more event parking, which opens our contracted private parking to the public. What happens to the ownership though? Currently Silver Hotel Group owns the whole lot, but now that it is being completely separated, it might change? Or maybe not. As Silver Hotel Group also owns the retail and office spaces for 25 The Esplanade. Looking at the parking for 45 The Esplanade, I didn’t notice any ramps. Are the ramps west of Church St and into the lane way? Or closer to our current ramp? Also, the only parking we’ll keep will be the one that’s under our building, which is the triangular part, the part not shown in the proposal for 45. If this proposal does get accepted and construction starts, how are they gonna separate the garage? Will we lose access to it when they demolish half of the garage? You know, it’s connected as one.

Lots of questions. Wonder how they’re gonna demolish half of our garage and separate it. Possibly losing access for a while…

We should probably discuss this over a beer on the terrace . The lawyers will have to figure this one out. I assume some sort of new contract or settlement or a breach of contract

The 45 ramp is at the back off the laneway. Each floor is “the ramp” slopped down to the next level. This will be a complete teardown to the existing P3 or a new elevation of P3.

I assume the first thing is to separate all the common elements in the parking garage; such as life safety, emergency power, controls, ventilation, water, sewer, drainage, lighting, electrical, communications, buried common main gas line in the laneway entrance. etc. Maybe they will need an additional new egress too.

Then I assume they would install a new concrete or block wall at the property line separating the 3 parking levels. Then we would be self contained and ready for demolition. Access to the 25 garage would be through the common laneway or the back laneway through our normal entrance. They will need to maintain access for cars, garbage, moving truck, contractors, daily Canada Post - post office box and other furniture deliveries.

I assume Silver Group Hotels will still maintain ownership of the existing parking and office. Who knows what their plans are? Sell it back, hand over the retail and office, try to make us happy or just give us the middle finger.

It should be fun one to demo with the 2024 bike lanes adjacent to colonnade and one way access on the Esplanade for staging.

Why bother? Just keep the Novotel.

 

[Bibi L]

We should probably discuss this over a beer on the terrace . The lawyers will have to figure this one out. I assume some sort of new contract or settlement or a breach of contract

The 45 ramp is at the back off the laneway. Each floor is “the ramp” slopped down to the next level. This will be a complete teardown to the existing P3 or a new elevation of P3.

I assume the first thing is to separate all the common elements in the parking garage; such as life safety, emergency power, controls, ventilation, water, sewer, drainage, lighting, electrical, communications, buried common main gas line in the laneway entrance. etc. Maybe they will need an additional new egress too.

Then I assume they would install a new concrete or block wall at the property line separating the 3 parking levels. Then we would be self contained and ready for demolition. Access to the 25 garage would be through the common laneway or the back laneway through our normal entrance. They will need to maintain access for cars, garbage, moving truck, contractors, daily Canada Post - post office box and other furniture deliveries.

I assume Silver Group Hotels will still maintain ownership of the existing parking and office. Who knows what their plans are? Sell it back, hand over the retail and office, try to make us happy or just give us the middle finger.

It should be fun one to demo with the 2024 bike lanes adjacent to colonnade and one way access on the Esplanade for staging.

Why bother? Just keep the Novotel.

Haha, yeah we should. We’ll probably run into each other someday. You’ve got every LCBO in town favourited on Apple Maps…

I see, the floor with be slightly slanted until it reaches the next floor, instead of it being flat and a ramp somewhere. Definitely a complete tear down and rebuild.

I’m also wondering, the current garage has around 4 stairs. After the garage is separated, we’ll only have one. Would that be up to fire code? We will have 2 air vents.
That will be a lot of work. The current garage is very much connected as one big lot between two buildings. Separating it and having to separate everything into both parking lots independently will be a lot of work.

I don’t understand why Avro Group decided to not give ownership to part of the parking lot to MTCC #850. And also kept the retail and office space to themselves, only to later sell all of it to Silver Hotel Group, instead of some to MTCC 850. Our condo board can’t do anything about the condition of the parking. And residents have complained previously about it. We have to rent the parking instead of own it… parking is not in our hands…

Why don’t we just keep the Novotel. The architecture of it complements 25 The Esplanade very well. Walking under the 180m colonnade stretching both buildings is always great. It will be a loss if they demolish it, cutting the colonnade in half. I love the colonnade. It’s nothing like any other building in the city. It’s iconic. It fits the neighbourhood well. Replacing it with just glass and brick will be so boring. It’ll be like any other part of downtown with new boring developments where architecture is just copied and pasted. It’ll be a forgetful area. Not the case with the current building. Lots of people walk under it and enjoy it. The whole Esplanade will become a long street with very long brick walls on either sides. Novotel and 25 bring vibrancy to the neighbourhood. And it’s a building that people walk by and take pictures of and remember. So many wedding shoots. Even movies filmed under the colonnade.

And someone said “It’s just precast concrete from the 80s”
Yeah, but what about the replacement? That’s nothing special either. Just glass from the 2020s.
The architecture for Novotel and 25 is done different in a way that I enjoy it. Not the case for the new development.

So much work to demolish it too. Why not build somewhere else? Why this one.

 

[mburrrrr]

Avro originally sold the parking spots with the condo units. I don’t have the exact details but there was a dispute about the ground water I believe and the developer bought all the parking spots back from the condo owners after a few years. Then the developer created a new agreement with mttc850 and rented the parking out through Yorke parking, then Impark and now Target.

It looks like the new P3 level will be about 1 m lower than existing based on the site plan application files.
Hopefully they don’t create any ground water issues during construction.

 

[Bibi L]

Avro originally sold the parking spots with the condo units. I don’t have the exact details but there was a dispute about the ground water I believe and the developer bought all the parking spots back from the condo owners after a few years. Then the developer created a new agreement with mttc850 and rented the parking out through Yorke parking, then Impark and now Target.

It looks like the new P3 level will be about 1 m lower than existing based on the site plan application files.
Hopefully they don’t create any ground water issues during construction.

View attachment 581310

View attachment 581309

View attachment 581311

And when I thought I knew everything about this building…
That’s interesting. So all of the parking spots were originally sold with the units? And the condo board owned them, then sold them back to Avro Group (the developer) shortly after? Why would they do that? What would ground water have to do with that? When reading through my late 80s welcome book from Avro Group welcoming the new residents to our new homes themselves I don’t recall them talking much about the parking, and how they own it. I remember them saying “your neighbours to the east, Novotel Toronto Centre” and something about future retail and office space. And how they owned the spaces. Though I could be forgetting something.

 

[mburrrrr]

And when I thought I knew everything about this building…
That’s interesting. So all of the parking spots were originally sold with the units? And the condo board owned them, then sold them back to Avro Group (the developer) shortly after? Why would they do that? What would ground water have to do with that? When reading through my late 80s welcome book from Avro Group welcoming the new residents to our new homes themselves I don’t recall them talking much about the parking, and how they own it. I remember them saying “your neighbours to the east, Novotel Toronto Centre” and something about future retail and office space. And how they owned the spaces. Though I could be forgetting something.

And I thought I knew Apple Maps.
Yes. All (assuming 244) parking spots were sold with the 571 units. I believe they were all sold at the time.
Assuming nice new parking spots didn’t look good with ground water leaking thought the walls and they were concerned about the life cycle cost?
I should research this a little more with some of the original owners in the building.

 

[Bibi L]

And I thought I knew Apple Maps.
Yes. All (assuming 244) parking spots were sold with the 571 units. I believe they were all sold at the time.
Assuming nice new parking spots didn’t look good with ground water leaking thought the walls and they were concerned about the life cycle cost?
I should research this a little more with some of the original owners in the building.

I’m reading through the Avro Group book from the 80s. Hopefully there’s more info I haven’t learned about. Already learned something, the Cafe Nicole was originally a Cafe Le Arcades.

Some pages:


DEAR RESIDENT:

THIS MANUAL HAS BEEN PREPARED TO FACILITATE THE TRANSITION TO YOUR NEW HOME AND FOR SOME, NEW NEIGHBORHOOD.

WE ENCOURAGE YOU TO TAKE THE TIME TO REVIEW THIS PRIOR TO YOUR MOVE IN. PLEASE FEEL FREE TO CONTACT THE MANAGEMENT OFFICE AT (number) IF WE MAY BE OF ANY FURTHER ASSISTANCE.

INCLUDED YOU WILL FIND INFORMATION ABOUT BUILDING FACILITIES, MECHANICAL SYSTEMS, STAFFING, MANAGEMENT, AND VARIOUS POLICIES AND PROCEDURES TO NAME BUT A FEW SUBJECTS.

THESE POLICIES AND PROCEDURES ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE AND WE WILL ADVISE YOU IF THIS IS THE CASE. IN ADDITION, ONCE YOU ELECT YOUR BOARD OF DIRECTORS THEY WILL DETERMINE THE MANNER IN WHICH THE CONDOMINIUM WILL BE OPERATED.

WE RECOMMEND THAT YOU CONSULT YOUR SOLICITOR FOR CLARIFICATION OF MATTERS PERTAINING TO THE CONDOMINIUM ACT, THE DECLARATION OF THE ESPLANADE AND OTHER MATTERS RELATED TO YOUR CONDOMINIUM UNIT.

THIS MANUAL SHOULD BE KEPT FOR YOUR FUTURE REFERENCE AND THAT OF YOUR GUESTS, AND POTENTIAL FUTURE OWNERS OR OCCUPANTS OF YOUR SUITE.

ON BEHALF OF THE AVRO GROUP WE WISH YOU " WELCOME" TO YOUR NEW HOME!


SINCERELY,

THE AVRO GROUP


Other page:


NOVOTEL HOTEL (TORONTO CENTRE)

Immediately next to the Esplanade Condominium is Canada's third Novotel Hotel, a touch of Europe in the heart of downtown.

For your wining and dining pleasure, the hotel restaurant, Cafe les Arcades, is open from 6:00 a.m. to midnight and offers a comfortable ambience and culinary delights of both European style and North American cuisine. Enjoy a weekly Sunday Brunch, or spend a relaxing evening at the hotel's Bar where wine, french cuisine and finger foods are the focus for the discerning palate.

Conference and banquet facilities are available and consist of three specially designed and fuly equipped meeting rooms for 10 to 110 guests. Featuring state-of-the-art audio-visual equipment. The Champagne Ballroom offers banquet facilities for up to 190 guests with a breezy outdoor terrace and meeting facilities for up to 240 guests.

For your out of town guests, there are 266 comfortable, reasonably priced rooms, including eight Mini Suites and two Deluxe Suites. Every Novotel room is thoughtfully furnished with unexpected accoutrements like a hairdryer, remote control television with cable and pay channels, even a bathroom telephone and radio/TV speaker.

 

[Bibi L]

@mburrrrr
BINGO! Found something very important. I’m reading the book from Avro Group welcoming new residents from the 80s when the building opened.


AUTOMOBILE CONTROL

The parking garage located beneath the building is not part of the Condominium Corporation. The Board of Directors and the Condominium Management do not have any involvement in the control of vehicles parked there.

Residents who experience difficulties associated with the parking garage located beneath the Condominium should refer their concerns to either the attendant in the booth located at the top of the entrance ramp (number) or to Canada Auto Parks at (number).

The Condominium should however exercise some measures to control vehicles both in front of the building and in the loading dock area.

These areas are crucial for access and the provision of emergency services i.e. fire fighters, ambulance attendants etc.

The Department of Public Works cautions that if clear access is not provided for garbage collection their employees will not be able to wait until access can be provided.

Failure to have a regular garbage pick up from the City will result in costly emergency pick ups by private collectors.

Every effort with your co-operation will be made by your security personnel to ensure that the area is clear of vehicles on collection days.

Illegally parked vehicles in these areas may be tagged and or towed at the owner's expense.


Some other information from other pages:


THE AVRO GROUP

With over 35 years experience in the real estate development industry, The Avro Group is proud to be involved in 25 The Esplanade. We hope that you will enjoy your new home, its architecture, amenities and superb location.

This project is one of several currently underway or recently completed by The Avro Group. Novotel Toronto Centre, your neighbor to the east, was completed and opened in 1987. In North York, "City Centre", complete with a public library, hotel, subway stop, offices, fine restaurants and over 80 stores, serves as the focal point for the community and establishes the benchmark for further development. As a joint venture partner in the condominiums at King’s Landing, Avro is a participant in the strengthening of the true spirit of our harbourfront.

In the past, the principals of Avro have been responsible for the development, construction and management for much ot Toronto's current apartment housing stock, most of which was constructed in the 60's and 70's.

In the late 1970's, the focus moved away from apartment development. With their extensive expertise in residential construction, the principals of Avro started to build residential co-op housing for the city under contract, and developed the areas only freehold townhouses. Forty four acres of housing in the St. Lawrence area of Toronto was built during the period to 1980. Specific projects in this area include Crombie Park and Wordsworth Co-op. This area now stands as the prime example of downtown residential development. It is expected that the recently announced "St. Lawrence Square" scheme will incorporate many of the concepts and innovations first developed at earlier projects.

Current projects on Avro's horizon include a mixed use development on the Marine Terminal 27 site, at the foot of Yonge Street and the development of industrial commercial buildings on a 100 acre site in the Town of Vaughan.


THE AVRO GROUP CONTINUED ...

The Avro Group is continuing its involvement in residential development with commercial real estate as a complimentary activity.

Following completion of 25 The Esplanade by Avro Construction Inc., the property management will be performed by another Avro Group company on your behalf. The property manager, maintenance personnel, and others are also proud to be part of this project and look forward to continued association with 25 The Esplanade in the future.


RETAIL FACILITIES

The retail facilities at the Esplanade do not form part of the Condominium Corporation.

Located on the ground floor we anticipate that they will include a gourmet green grocer, a restaurant, dry cleaning depot and various other facilities as space permits.

Access to the retail facilities will be from the street only. In order to ensure security there will be no access from the Condominium lobby.

Further information will be forwarded to residents upon completion of the stores.


@mburrrrr I think you’ll enjoy this part…


WINDOW CLEANING

Exterior window cleaning will be performed by contract cleaners approximately three times per year.

Residents will be provided with advance notice as to when their suite windows will be cleaned. This is to allow you an opportunity to protect your privacy by closing blinds the night before. It also give you time to remove the screens so that the windows behind them can be cleaned.

Please inspect your windows the same day that they have been cleaned. Advise the Management Office the following business day if you feel that an inadequate job was done or if you think your windows were missed.

We will inspect your windows to ascertain the quality of work being performed and in fact whether they have been over-looked.

Unfortunately, in the event that there was inclement weather immediately following the cleaning of your windows we may be unable to verify the quality of work.

 

[Bibi L]

This is how the site currently looks like and how it will look like. And how views from sorrounding buildings will be affected. Thanks to steveve’s 3D model on Precondo’s website.
First, current site.

How it will look like.

@mburrrrr this will be your future view if it starts construction. East view of 25 The Esplanade.

 

[Bibi L]

Going back to the history of the parking lot, were the units for 25 really sold with the parking lot and then bought back by Avro?

In their welcome book from when the building finished, they mention this:
“The parking garage located beneath the building is not part of the Condominium Corporation. The Board of Directors and the Condominium Management do not have any involvement in the control of vehicles parked there.”

If the units were sold with the parking lots, the condo board would have owned the parking. But they clearly state that the garage is not part of the condo board, as it still is today.

 

[mburrrrr]

Going back to the history of the parking lot, were the units for 25 really sold with the parking lot and then bought back by Avro?

In their welcome book from when the building finished, they mention this:
“The parking garage located beneath the building is not part of the Condominium Corporation. The Board of Directors and the Condominium Management do not have any involvement in the control of vehicles parked there.”

If the units were sold with the parking lots, the condo board would have owned the parking. But they clearly state that the garage is not part of the condo board, as it still is today.

Hmmm. It does seem I have this wrong. It was hearsay from an original owner. I will dig further to see where I went wrong.

 

[Bibi L]

If I had to choose between the designs for this site, I would rather choose the original one, with the gold fins. That at least looked better than what is currently proposed. Preferably, I would not choose any, and rather keep the current building.

Another parking question…
Would we just keep the current gate, which is the only gate on P2?
With the separation, that means we have P1, P2 and P3 all for our building. P1 will also have some retail and office parking spaces, but the rest will be private for 25. P1 will no longer be entirely public. Would we have to add another gate at P1? Since some residents would probably park at P1, and would like to have it gated like P2/P3.