News   Jul 31, 2020
 4.7K     0 
News   Jul 31, 2020
 3.3K     13 
News   Jul 31, 2020
 1.1K     3 

228 Finch Avenue West (?, 3s, Line and Page)

sunnyraytoronto

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jan 12, 2009
Messages
1,761
Reaction score
549
Location
Willowdale 150 Canada
Better yet, extend the LRT to yonge and bring the road closer to the building lol.

Shhhh,... that's exactly what's being done here - unofficially!

Officially, from days of Metro Toronto - City is widening Finch & Sheppard Ave from 4-lanes (here) to 6-lanes. Some parts of Finch & Sheppard (mostly in Scarborough or Etobicoke) is already likely to have 4-lanes plus a super-wide grassy boulevard between curb & sidewalk - each wide enough to add traffic lane!

Here in central part of North York,.... Finch & Sheppard are generally 4-lanes with sidewalk close to curb (usually no grassy boulevard). So to widen Finch & Sheppard from 4-lanes to 6-lanes as per City's Official Plan, City must insist each new re-development along these streets convey a strip of land along their frontage about 15 feet wide (rendering usually shows wide grassy boulevard (temporary) & sidewalk but eventually you'll need 10 feet for traffic lane and another 5 feet or so for wider sidewalk & protective boulevard). It'll take decades before all the properties along Finch & Sheppard redevelop so City can accumulate enough right-of-way land to widen roadway from 4-lanes to 6-lanes.

There's currently no political will to widen roadways in Toronto for more car lanes,... but for Transit it's a different story - so that's what's happening here - unofficially.

Currently Finch West LRT under construction between Finch West Station (at Keeles) to Humber College,.... City don't want Finch West LRT linking Finch West Station (Keele) to Finch Station on Yonge Street because that would overload an already full-capacity Yonge Subway Line. So it's technically not committed yet, but unofficially City will "explore" this Finch LRT to Yonge Street (close loop between Spadina & Yonge subway Line) once all the other/current LRT projects are done/further along and I guess once Yonge extension to Richmond Hill completes & Ontario Line reaches Eglinton or eventually Sheppard to take pressure off Yonge Line.


Does anyone want to venture as to why adding retail at mid-block locations like this along Finch or Sheppard won't work - or at least it'll be extremely challenging. Hint: Look at the map
 

Edward Skira

http://skyrisecities.com
Staff member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
13,790
Reaction score
12,048
Location
Toronto
Does anyone want to venture as to why adding retail at mid-block locations like this along Finch or Sheppard won't work - or at least it'll be extremely challenging. Hint: Look at the map
The funny thing is the newish building to the east does have retail. So either all should have retail to build a continuous strip or none should. Having only one block with retail helps nobody.
 

Towered

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
4,874
Reaction score
2,581
The funny thing is the newish building to the east does have retail. So either all should have retail to build a continuous strip or none should. Having only one block with retail helps nobody.
The city should enforce such retail spaces.
 

WislaHD

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Sep 21, 2013
Messages
8,571
Reaction score
6,137
Location
Midtown Toronto
A townhome development here would basically be a permanent fixture. I can't see any developer assembling the lots after this is built.

I am weary of plonking such developments on main streets like Finch. It feels like a repeat of what happened in Eglinton and Widdicombe. I would rather see these kind of infill townhouse density in the interior of the single-detached neighbourhood than directly on Finch.

On a main street like Finch, I'd rather see developments like the ones being proposed on Wilson be built directly on the Avenues. Or failing that, something like whats next-door to the east. Though in regards to the conversation regarding retail, it should be noted that the retail on Wilson is also rather challenged.
 
Last edited:

sunnyraytoronto

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jan 12, 2009
Messages
1,761
Reaction score
549
Location
Willowdale 150 Canada
Precisely. Every avenue should be lined with a continuous, pedestrian friendly retail strip.
What good is Pedestrian Friendly retail strip,... if there's no pedestrians?

Look closely at GoogleEarth streetsview image @Edward Skira posted,.... shadow shows it around mid-day, yet, there's not even 1 pedestrian! I live here in Willowdale and occasionally walk along Finch Ave - often walking along this stretch of Finch Ave West - west of Bathurst to east of Beecroft - I could walk a kilometer in the daytime without seeing another pedestrian! Why?

Mixed use with retail is often used as selling-point local amenity for buyer and local residents - often interpreting it as useful Corner convenience store, grocery store, dry-cleaner, restaurant, coffee shop, pharmacy, etc,... The building directly east that @Edward Skira referred to is mixed-use completed about 5 years ago with 10 retail units on ground floor (currently 3 formed Bakery/Cafe, 2 formed Domino Pizza, 1 small Pharmacy next to Health/Wellness & Doctor's Office - 2 vacant). Here, the ethnic Pharmacy, Health/Wellness & Doctor's office would service a much larger catchment area than just local area - thus, less utilization for locals. Also, since residential is easier and higher margin sale - it's tougher to convince developers to build any retail & office component.

5 years ago, during review of Sheppard Avenue Commercial Area Secondary Plan (Easton/Senlac to Bayview) when City Planning & local Councillor wanted to model it to Central Finch Area Secondary Plan (Bathurst to Finch full of townhouses with 3-4 storey with retail base) - I opposed & convince them ground floor retail along Sheppard would not work, since there's low pedestrian traffic. Why??? Also since vast majority of commercial space along this part of Sheppard is professional offices (medical, dental, financial, consulate) drawing from larger catchment area, I convinced them to encourage offices here instead of displacing offices with retail.


Another hint for "Does anyone want to venture as to why adding retail at mid-block locations like this along Finch or Sheppard won't work - or at least it'll be extremely challenging. Hint: Look at the map" - why does retail on east-west arterial roads work well downtown (east & west Toronto) but not here in Central North York?
 

junctionist

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
8,587
Reaction score
1,831
Location
The Junction, Toronto
A townhome development here would basically be a permanent fixture. I can't see any developer assembling the lots after this is built.

I am weary of plonking such developments on main streets like Finch. It feels like a repeat of what happened in Eglinton and Widdicombe. I would rather see these kind of infill townhouse density in the interior of the single-detached neighbourhood than directly on Finch.

On a main street like Finch, I'd rather see developments like the ones being proposed on Wilson be built directly on the Avenues. Or failing that, something like whats next-door to the east. Though in regards to the conversation regarding retail, it should be noted that the retail on Wilson is also rather challenged.
I agree. The density is too low for a major avenue. Also, no one wants to live in a low-rise building facing a major street. Condos are more palatable where the first 1-3 floors are commercial, followed by residential uses higher up and more isolated from the noise and pollution of the street.
 

interchange42

Administrator
Staff member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
23,320
Reaction score
19,636
Location
by the Humber
These developments are what brings them, and the spaces must be created in order to provide the variety of shops, amenities and services that are necessary to discourage car use as much as possible.
You might get some pedestrians if you line Finch in this area with shops at ground level, but the neighbourhoods in behind are not dense enough to provide enough pedestrians to make a continuous strip of commercial work here. Maybe we should be lining avenues like this with live-work units, however, plus the odd convenience shops on corners. Otherwise, you need drive-up parking like the suburban strip plazas along Wilson, as per below…

Untitled 2.jpg


42
 

Towered

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
4,874
Reaction score
2,581
You might get some pedestrians if you line Finch in this area with shops at ground level, but the neighbourhoods in behind are not dense enough to provide enough pedestrians to make a continuous strip of commercial work here. Maybe we should be lining avenues like this with live-work units, however, plus the odd convenience shops on corners. Otherwise, you need drive-up parking like the suburban strip plazas along Wilson, as per below…

View attachment 228925

42
Those yellow-belt areas right behind major arterials like Finch need to be redeveloped. Sooner or later, the lame-duck politicians at city hall will be forced to stop ignoring the "stable neighbourhoods" elephant in the room.
 

Top