Bjays92
Senior Member
I was specifically thinking of Patriot air defence systems when I made this post.
It seems now that such a deal is happening. Disappointed it took quite this long but I am glad it is happening nonetheless.
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2022/24 Russian-Ukrainian War
- Thread starter Towered
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It seems now that such a deal is happening. Disappointed it took quite this long but I am glad it is happening nonetheless.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
It will be a race between USA/EU/NATO and China to pick up the spoils and remnants of Russia's collapse. Once again the Great Game is centred on the 'Stans.
Bjays92
Senior Member
I'm not sure theyre quite that close to collapse. China has a deep interest in propping up the Putin regime and there are plenty of non western countries still willing to cooperate with Russia.
It will be a race between USA/EU/NATO and China to pick up the spoils and remnants of Russia's collapse. Once again the Great Game is centred on the 'Stans.
Richard White
Senior Member
Once Putin dies there will be a power vacuum in Russia.
That being said, I do think that the War in Ukraine has impacted the overall credibility of Russia not only regionally but globally. Right now, they seem to be like a 1980s Soviet Union in terms of how they operate.
I cannot see Russia lasting in its current form if the war drags on. I can see Turkey and China laying the groundwork with former Russian friendly states.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Good article on Russia’s failure in Ukraine.
Here‘s paywall free access, https://archive.vn/lUU9l
A part from the Ukrainian Air Force:
As missiles struck the southern city of Mykolaiv before dawn, a Ukrainian pilot, Oleksii, woke up to a phone call: Get to the runway, a fellow pilot told him.
Oleksii bolted across the tarmac in the dark as the first Russian missiles landed, clambered into his Su-27 fighter jet and took off just as buildings across the airfield began to explode.
"At that moment, I understood that it was really something bad," said Oleksii, 26, on condition that only his first name and rank, captain, be used. Some other soldiers and officials in this article were not authorized to speak publicly, or faced reprisals.
Just before 6 a.m. Moscow time, Mr. Putin declared the opening of his "special military operation" in a televised address. It began with an aerial bombardment to take out Ukraine's air defenses, communications and radar installations — to overwhelm its military and shatter its ability to fight back.
More than 150 missiles thundered into Ukraine from bombers, submarines and ships. As many as 75 Russian aircraft streaked into Ukrainian skies, about the size of Ukraine's entire working air combat fleet, analysts and officials said.
On his radar screen, Oleksii saw the blips of incoming missiles and enemy aircraft before getting his orders: Fly to a backup air base in central Ukraine. When he landed, he was astonished. Not only was his unit there, but a good portion of Ukraine's remaining air force as well.
For days, he and his fellow pilots flew missions from their new base, wondering when Russian radar operators would finally notice them. A strike on their position could have been disastrous, gutting the Ukrainian defense, and the pilots assumed it was only a matter of time until one came. But it took four days for the Russians to attack, and most of the aircraft had moved to new locations by then, leaving Oleksii in amazement.
"It was really simple," he said. "I don't know how they missed this opportunity."
The failure to destroy Ukraine's modest air defenses was one of the most significant blunders of the war, foiling Russia's mighty air force early on. Interviews revealed why that happened — and how the Ukrainians managed to stay a step ahead of their invaders.
Here‘s paywall free access, https://archive.vn/lUU9l
A part from the Ukrainian Air Force:
As missiles struck the southern city of Mykolaiv before dawn, a Ukrainian pilot, Oleksii, woke up to a phone call: Get to the runway, a fellow pilot told him.
Oleksii bolted across the tarmac in the dark as the first Russian missiles landed, clambered into his Su-27 fighter jet and took off just as buildings across the airfield began to explode.
"At that moment, I understood that it was really something bad," said Oleksii, 26, on condition that only his first name and rank, captain, be used. Some other soldiers and officials in this article were not authorized to speak publicly, or faced reprisals.
Just before 6 a.m. Moscow time, Mr. Putin declared the opening of his "special military operation" in a televised address. It began with an aerial bombardment to take out Ukraine's air defenses, communications and radar installations — to overwhelm its military and shatter its ability to fight back.
More than 150 missiles thundered into Ukraine from bombers, submarines and ships. As many as 75 Russian aircraft streaked into Ukrainian skies, about the size of Ukraine's entire working air combat fleet, analysts and officials said.
On his radar screen, Oleksii saw the blips of incoming missiles and enemy aircraft before getting his orders: Fly to a backup air base in central Ukraine. When he landed, he was astonished. Not only was his unit there, but a good portion of Ukraine's remaining air force as well.
For days, he and his fellow pilots flew missions from their new base, wondering when Russian radar operators would finally notice them. A strike on their position could have been disastrous, gutting the Ukrainian defense, and the pilots assumed it was only a matter of time until one came. But it took four days for the Russians to attack, and most of the aircraft had moved to new locations by then, leaving Oleksii in amazement.
"It was really simple," he said. "I don't know how they missed this opportunity."
The failure to destroy Ukraine's modest air defenses was one of the most significant blunders of the war, foiling Russia's mighty air force early on. Interviews revealed why that happened — and how the Ukrainians managed to stay a step ahead of their invaders.
kEiThZ
Superstar
About that NYT article....
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From Institute on the Study of War today: From: https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/ukraine-conflict-updates
Key Takeaways
Key Takeaways
- Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko likely deflected Russian President Vladimir Putin’s efforts to coerce Belarus into Russian-Belarusian integration concessions on December 19.
- Russian forces targeted Kyiv with Shahed-131 and 136 kamikaze drone strikes overnight on December 18-19.
- Igor Girkin, a former Russian militant commander and prominent critical voice in the Russian milblogger information space, wrote a harsh critique of the Russian military’s overall performance in the war.
- The Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) reportedly clashed with other Russian occupation authorities regarding basic administration procedures, suggesting tensions between the various occupation administrations in Ukraine.
- The Wagner Group has likely built its offensive model around tactical brutality in order to accommodate for and take advantage of its base of poorly trained and recently recruited convicts.
- Russian forces continued limited counterattacks along the Svatove-Kreminna line as Russian sources claimed that Ukrainian forces targeted Russian rear positions in Luhansk Oblast.
- Russian forces reportedly lost positions south of Bakhmut on December 18 and continued ground attacks near Bakhmut and Donetsk City.
- Ukrainian officials reported that Russian forces are pulling back some elements from areas along the east (left) bank of the Dnipro River in Kherson Oblast.
- Wagner Group financier Yevgeniy Prigozhin continued efforts to establish the Wagner Group as a legitimate parastatal organization by petitioning notoriously nationalist elements in the Kremlin.
- Russian occupation authorities continued to restrict movement within occupied territories and employ societal intimidation tactics.
kEiThZ
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Courage and leadership.
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Just posted on CNN
Planning is under way for President Joe Biden to welcome Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to the White House on Wednesday in what would be a surprise visit that will coincide with the administration’s intent to send the country a new defense assistance package that will include Patriot missile systems, according to two sources familiar with the planning underway.
This is a breaking story and will be updated.
Planning is under way for President Joe Biden to welcome Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to the White House on Wednesday in what would be a surprise visit that will coincide with the administration’s intent to send the country a new defense assistance package that will include Patriot missile systems, according to two sources familiar with the planning underway.
This is a breaking story and will be updated.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Admiral Beez
Superstar
The Russians have to have considered finding and shooting down Zelenskyy’s flight to Washington. They’ve already shot down a civilian airliner, Malaysian Airlines Flight 17, so that’s no big moral leap. Presumably to avoid this Zelenskyy traveled overland to Poland before boarding a US military aircraft. So, now the Russians will be thinking how to kill Zelenskyy whilst in the US on his return transit.
I hope this visit results in longer range land attack missiles and artillery, additional advanced SAMs, western tanks and combat aircraft going to Ukraine in 1Q23. On the latter two, the US and NATO have had ten months to train the AFU on how to operate, maintain and logistically support western MBTs, fighter jets and attack helicopters.
I hope this visit results in longer range land attack missiles and artillery, additional advanced SAMs, western tanks and combat aircraft going to Ukraine in 1Q23. On the latter two, the US and NATO have had ten months to train the AFU on how to operate, maintain and logistically support western MBTs, fighter jets and attack helicopters.
kEiThZ
Superstar
The likelihood of Zelenskyy flying out of Ukraine is low. Most likely going by land to Poland and they departing from there. Good luck to any Russian crews that they think they will get anywhere close enough to take a shot at a VVIP jet in NATO airspace.
Given that he's addressing Congress today, by the time the news got out he was likely already close to the Polish border, after departing from Bakhmut. He was probably scheduled to be airborne within hours of that news. And we know Russian targeting doesn't have anywhere near that kind of turnaround.
Not that is makes it any less despicable. But that was a case of incompetence and mistaken identity. They didn't deliberately down a civilian airliner. Poorly trained crew with no understanding of the rules of engagement and identification procedures shot down what they thought was a Ukrainian transport. It's why theatre air defences shouldn't be operated by the poorly trained. And it's why airlines should stay very far from conflict zones, even if it costs them extra gas.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Zelenskyy is traveling aboard USAF VVIP airlift and is due to arrive a little over 3 hrs from now at Andrews AFB in Maryland:
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Thoughts on an olive green suit?
Richard White
Senior Member
I wonder how Russia will react to Ukraine getting PAC-3s from the US. This will most certainly change the game and I wonder if Putin will escalate the level of force he is currently applying.