2018 Ontario Provincial Election Discussion

[steveintoronto]

Dude, you had a centrist government with Wynne's Liberals. To quote the Princess Bride, I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Well if that was Centrist, then Kanye really is a genius...

In the Thorncliffe Park area , the epicenter for the sex-ed protests

Damn! I've been dropping the hyphen lately, and thought that was the "Sexed Protests"...like some new kewl babe hip-hop band, yo...

 

[Amare]

You sweet summer child. The reason everyone apparently thinks Wynne is the devil is because the Tories have been running an anti-Wynne campaign for the last five years. Why is “gas plant!” such a strong narrative after a decade?

I beg to differ. The hydro prices/sell-off was enough to anger voters to the point of wanting to throw Wynne off a cliff. All anyone had to say is the word "hydro" and people would have been instantly angry to the point of wanting to vote her out (which they did). Once Ford said he wanted to fire Hydro One's CEO, people were jumping for joy since they somehow thought that will solve the problem of high hydro rates, and it just added kerosene to the fire around Wynne.

 

[Hopkins123]

Dude, you had a centrist government with Wynne's Liberals. To quote the Princess Bride, I don't think that word means what you think it means.

You only believe that because of where the Liberals have been positioned historically. Ever since the Harper years, in order to counteract the resurgence of the centre-right and dually cancel out the threat of the NDP forming government, the Liberals both provincially and federally have abandoned the centre completely and shifted Left.

In this election it backfired completely, because as I suspect, 60% of the population as the media likes to tell us is actually not left-wing; there's just not that many motivated to vote because they suspect their vote won't actually make a difference. The Tories just needed an additional 5% of the electorate (those typical fence-sitters) to get riled up enough to send the Liberals a message and come out to the polls and it worked. I only can see good coming from this though as it will allow the Liberals to soul-search and re-group, just like the Fed Liberals did after Ignatieff effed up.

 

[adma]

You only believe that because of where the Liberals have been positioned historically. Ever since the Harper years, in order to counteract the resurgence of the centre-right and dually cancel out the threat of the NDP forming government, the Liberals both provincially and federally have abandoned the centre completely and shifted Left.

In this election it backfired completely, because as I suspect, 60% of the population as the media likes to tell us is actually not left-wing; there's just not that many motivated to vote because they suspect their vote won't actually make a difference. The Tories just needed an additional 5% of the electorate (those typical fence-sitters) to get riled up enough to send the Liberals a message and come out to the polls and it worked. I only can see good coming from this though as it will allow the Liberals to soul-search and re-group, just like the Fed Liberals did after Ignatieff effed up.

Keep in mind what I told BurlOak re "centrism...

"I've said it before; but your idea of political "centrism" is akin to declaring Robert Bateman to be artistic "centrism" (and that institutions like the AGO have long fallen prey to radicalism a la colour-field abstraction and giant cloth hamburgers and whatnot)"

Though from the calibre of your postings, I take you to be more of an unabashed philistine who wouldn't know or care what any of that's about...then again, the Ford Tories truly *are* the "philistine's revenge" option...

 

[Northern Light]

You only believe that because of where the Liberals have been positioned historically. Ever since the Harper years, in order to counteract the resurgence of the centre-right and dually cancel out the threat of the NDP forming government, the Liberals both provincially and federally have abandoned the centre completely and shifted Left.

In this election it backfired completely, because as I suspect, 60% of the population as the media likes to tell us is actually not left-wing; there's just not that many motivated to vote because they suspect their vote won't actually make a difference. The Tories just needed an additional 5% of the electorate (those typical fence-sitters) to get riled up enough to send the Liberals a message and come out to the polls and it worked. I only can see good coming from this though as it will allow the Liberals to soul-search and re-group, just like the Fed Liberals did after Ignatieff effed up.

In a different thread, a different poster also w/a 'right-wing' POV was corrected in a similar manner.

The corrector was right...

If you considered the historical 'centre' as being the PC party of Robarts, and Davis; and looked at the expansion of the state and the raising of taxes they did, and the deficits they ran, the Wynne govern't was cleary to their RIGHT not LEFT.

Go back and review. Under PC governments of the 1960s you got universal healthcare for the first time, and the tax hikes that paid for it.

You also got unprecedented expansion of both High School (secondary) and University (post-secondary) education systems.

Public housing and subsides or building non-profit, co-op and private-sector rentals were robust.

University was close to free, as it was when I went in the early 90s (under $2,000 in tuition)

That was the CONSERVATIVE party, not the Liberals, never mind the NDP.

Your concept of where the centre lies is based on the last 20 years, and that is a-historical to the last 60.

 

[EagleEye]

I didn't watch any political stuff after he was declared winner. Were Stephanie and Dougie, Rob's kids, with the Ford family? People I talked to today said they were, but that Renata wasn't there, which isn't surprising.

 

[adma]

https://globalnews.ca/news/4257183/ontario-election-results-2018/

The poll by poll results are interesting. In the Thorncliffe Park area , the epicenter for the sex-ed protests, people still voted Liberal or NDP.

Actually, thanks to the "streamlining" of polling divisions on behalf of electronic voting, the poll by poll results are now disastrously *un*-interesting--big blobs of boring geography rather than the dense old warp and weft of polling stations.

Compare the 2014-vs-2018 maps here
https://globalnews.ca/news/4260146/ontario-election-poll-level-results-2/
Regardless of results, which do you prefer? Rich, dense 2014-style, or dumbed-down 2018-style?

 

[Jasmine18]

Was a clear win by Ford.

I know people will bitch about FPTP but progressives get in power and never do anything about it.

 

[Northern Light]

Was a clear win by Ford.

I know people will bitch about FPTP but progressives get in power and never do anything about it.

Part 1) Yes w/the qualification you noted that its a clear win under a terrible system that itself isn't particularly fair.

Part 2) Fair point, but that is no more the fault of progressive voters than a Conservative party running a large deficit is the fault of fiscal conservatives. Its a long standing problem
that parties that get into power suddenly become enamored by the status quo. Be they right or left (or elsewise) they are equally wrong.

 

[SunriseChampion]

Was a clear win by Ford.

I know people will bitch about FPTP but progressives get in power and never do anything about it.

Clear? Basic fucking maths dictates otherwise.

Don't you try and lecture me about moaning about FPTP. I've been moaning about it since I was old enough to realise how shit it was.

I DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT WHO WINS THE FALSE MAJORITY. THEY ARE ALL EQUALLY UNDESERVING OF ABSOLUTE LEGISLATIVE POWER.


PS: After reading this rubbish, I can't believe I ever stood up for you.

 

[SunriseChampion]

...that parties that get into power suddenly become enamored by the status quo.

Suddenly?

Their whole reason for being is a perpetuation of a struggle for power.
If the perpetuation of the status quo--which enables certain groups to have an easier chance at attaining (absolute) power--is upkept then the entire political sphere as an exercise in human freedom and choice in governance is robbed of its own reason for being.

FPTP is a fucking joke.
Especially as long as we dare venture 'round the globe promising to impose (or introduce....or whatever the bloody term is) democracy on others.

We don't quite get the flippin meaning of it ourselves.

 

[Jasmine18]

It is the fault of progressive voters as for Example Trudeau got elected and back off on it. I do not think Conservative parties promise to change the system and that makes sense as they are well "conservative " Lol.

The funny thing is that Trudeau or his successor will be beaten in the similar fashion as a result in the future and I 100% gonna bet, there is gonna be a ton of bitching about it.


Should Conservatives want to change it to? YES, but I doubt they would as they can only get elected by FPTP, so its up to progressive parties.

 

[BurlOak]

The FPTP system has served Canada incredibly well. The system prevents domination of one Region compared to just using popular vote. It ensures every elected member is accountable to a specific area. It also, likely be design, encourages majority governments that inherently provide more stable government than minorities. A look at recent minority governments (Harper, McGuinty, BC, etc.) shows that minority governments tend to be less accountable as spending is increased without regards for the future. It's up to the next majority government to restore stable governance. It took until Harpers next majority for him to balance the budget. McGuinty/Wynne could not balance the budget in 2011-14 in their minority as they had to appease the NDP.
FPTP has done an excellent job for Canada and that is why in all referenda, when they actually put some thought into it, they vote to keep it.

 

[JWBF]

The FPTP system has served Canada incredibly well. The system prevents domination of one Region compared to just using popular vote. It ensures every elected member is accountable to a specific area. It also, likely be design, encourages majority governments that inherently provide more stable government than minorities. A look at recent minority governments (Harper, McGuinty, BC, etc.) shows that minority governments tend to be less accountable as spending is increased without regards for the future. It's up to the next majority government to restore stable governance. It took until Harpers next majority for him to balance the budget. McGuinty/Wynne could not balance the budget in 2011-14 in their minority as they had to appease the NDP.
FPTP has done an excellent job for Canada and that is why in all referenda, when they actually put some thought into it, they vote to keep it.

Three things, One, majority governments by FPTP are not democratic, two, governments using the carrot and stick method to get reelected are not doing the job for which they were hired, and lastly, we should have real referendum laws that represent who should actually in charge.

 

[BurlOak]

Three things, One, majority governments by FPTP are not democratic, two, governments using the carrot and stick method to get reelected are not doing the job for which they were hired, and lastly, we should have real referendum laws that represent who should actually in charge.

Ontario had a referendum and chose FPTP. Has BC as well? We'll see how honest the current referendum is in BC. It looks like it will be skewed to give the answer of abandoning FPTP.