Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
Excellent points. Crude, but also reflective of reality.
Its also the reason why there's no space in French immersion schools. They've become like a private school stream within the public school system.
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2018 Ontario Provincial Election Discussion
- Thread starter MetroMan
- Start date
Its also the reason why there's no space in French immersion schools. They've become like a private school stream within the public school system.
steveintoronto
Superstar
That is all addressed by Schreiner. It's precisely the overlap of so many deliveries that makes it costly, and thus monies going to administration, not actual education. Why is Ontario having such a hard time dealing with this when many nations with higher PISA scores have one school system....and no boards.
http://www.oecd.org/education/school/programmeforinternationalstudentassessmentpisa/33858946.pdf
If the French Immersion is oversubscribed, then surely the answer is to increase funding? Where do the funds come from? Closing down needless duplication.
My bad, I blame the fifty year gap in my memory...they were merged some decades back, at least for the public system.
They have absolutely no purpose in today's political and secular world. Well....secular for some people it seems.
narduch
Senior Member
No mainstream party will touch the Catholic Board (or at least say so publically).
The issue with French Immersion is finding teachers. There just aren't enough of them.
The issue with French Immersion is finding teachers. There just aren't enough of them.
JGHali
Active Member
Quebec and Newfoundland secularized 20 years ago. I don’t know what the debates were like at the time, but eliminating this obsolete special treatment for Catholics is long overdue.
Filip
Senior Member
I get it about French Immersion, but Catholic schools? Growing up, all the bad kids I knew went to Catholic schools.
Two words: Bishop Allen - a more wretched hive of teenagers does not exist elsewhere.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Quebec still has separate schools going back to its roots, one for English (assumed to be Anglicans or Protestants) and one for French (Catholics). It's the same reason Ontario had two school boards, to appease the French and promote a new stronger BNA, due to fear of the growing power of the USA to the south.
Newfoundland, as a English colony starting in 1583 is far older than Ontario/Upper Canada (founded 1791), and had longstanding British roots without a French population to be accommodated. I can't speak for religious schooling in Nfld, was it run by the Anglicans?
Northern Light
Superstar
Had, they got rid of them some years ago, by way of constitutional amendment. Approved by both the National Assembly and Parliament, this took effect in 1998.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_schools_in_Canada#Quebec
Newfoundland had several Christian Boards, all four were abolished in the early 1990s. They likewise required a Constitutional Amendement. Which was easily passed, pro forma, as w/Quebec's as it only affected one province, it did not require the consent of an other provinces.
http://www.heritage.nf.ca/articles/society/collapse-denominational-education.php
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Interesting history, thanks.
Of course my kids' Toronto high school is beset by religion; with prayer rooms, religious clothing canceling out rules against hats or need for gym shorts, recognition of holy days and festivals, etc. Morning announcements are often peppered with call outs to some religious celebration or official TDSB religious recognition. Exams and important projects are moved to accommodate religious events, and school cafeteria menus adjusted to oblige religious dietary demands. Swimming and physical education has been segregated by gender to adhere to religious demands.
Toronto schools are expected to celebrate religions, such as http://www.tdsb.on.ca/Portals/0/docs/IHMRESOURCEGUIDEBOOK2017FULLV11.pdf
Our schools are not secular, but are in fact passively polytheistic.
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Northern Light
Superstar
Here's a notion.
Ontario's public schools writ large are among the very best in the world.
That's what the PISA results show (global benchmark in reading, math and science).
We've slipped a tad in math in recent years, but overall we're a top 10 performer globally when you break Ontario out of the Canadian numbers.
http://www.eqao.com/en/assessments/...ents/PISA-highlights-ontario-results-2015.pdf
We have very high secondary graduation rates and post-secondary attainment rates as well.
Funny how most parents don't perceive that.
I think there's a conflation between school uniforms and academic performance that is not substantiated by the facts.
That's not to say Ontario can't do better (it can and should); nor that there aren't uniquely under-performing public schools (there are, and this shouldn't be abided)
But on balance, our public system puts up some pretty good numbers when compared w/its peers.
King of Kensington
Senior Member
It was attitudes like that of your Dipper friend that contributed to the disaster in 2014 (I care about the workers in SW Ontario, not yuppies in Toronto!)
I think the NDP will be far more competitive with the "Adam Vaughan" demographic this time. Certainly I think they recognized the error of writing off Toronto.
If the NDP is the de facto "progressive" option in this election, I expect Spadina-Fort York and University-Rosedale to go NDP (as they did in 2011 based on the transposed results).
King of Kensington
Senior Member
If the Libs drop off any further, they're seriously risking getting "Kim Campbelled" and winning only St. Paul's and Ottawa-Vanier!
Hopkins123
Senior Member
It's bizarre to me that St Paul's would stay Liberal since it skews whiter and wealthier. Based on maps of past election results, St Paul's has a formidable zone of blue postal codes contained in it.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Campbell got the "glass cliff" treatment. Not her fault.
King of Kensington
Senior Member
It's filled with highly educated professionals who see themselves as too educated to vote Conservative (especially with Ford leading them) and too bourgeois to vote NDP.
There's probably no riding in Ontario, besides maybe University-Rosedale, that have more of "the elites and the establishment" as Ford calls them. They're not going to vote for a party led by a crude right-wing populist.
syn
Senior Member
I'm quite suprised at those results. The NDP being 5% off the PCs is not something I expected (nor did I expect it from the Liberals).
If the trend continues we could be looking at a minority government, possibly an NDP one.