News   Nov 22, 2024
 524     1 
News   Nov 22, 2024
 1K     4 
News   Nov 22, 2024
 2.6K     8 

2018 Ontario Provincial Election Discussion

Why not? But any "vision" that doesn't include increasing revenues would fail, because our debt was not caused by excessive spending. All figures point to that.

The only thing I am expecting from Conservatives is reduced spending, and that would be a disaster.
Apologies, missed this post before.
"because our debt was not caused by excessive spending. All figures point to that." I agree with the gist of spending *at this time*, depending on the nature of it, but the A-G's report and others' indicate the multiplier value of that spending is neutral or less. I suspect some others will join that line of debate here, so let's revisit this particular point later?

Wynne is disliked by many, but I also think she's underestimated as both a politician and a campaigner.
She's certainly proving that! I won't even go as far as to state that we've had bad government. Until now, I couldn't see anyone being better (which is a pretty low bar, but hey...)

But let's all (or most of us) agree that the field has changed radically, and is probably about to change ever further.

I don't care what 'perfume' it is, anything is better than the fusty smell of incumbency as it is. Wynne is actually a higher point in her own cabinet!

Mulroney would get my vote for no other reason than for *capable change*. And she'd pick her cabinet well, the aforementioned Elliot amongst them, I'm sure. I still have doubts that Caroline can wear the boots heavy enough to deal with the outliers though. She's going to need a tough Whip to deal with them. We'll see, investment banking is hardly the game of ballet dancers.
 
Last edited:
Would better vision necessitate changing the party platform? What are the chances that the platform changes between now and the election?

I think its likely, though not in grand ways.

It seems unlikely that candidates for leadership could differentiate from each other without offering at least slight policy differences.

Since the party will have to reprint the physical platform and change out some images and words to banish Mr. Brown's Visage, its not a big deal to swap out or alter a page or two.

That said, they've already had the existing platform reviewed independently by Kevin Page for credible numbers; and the platform was arrived at after extensive consultation with members; that makes large-scale change unlikely.

****

On balance the PC platform isn't half bad, there are a few things in there I support; and very few that offend.

Were I offering free advice to the party, however, I would suggest dropping the income tax cut, as I don't see it being a big seller or good policy; I would replace it with a modest commitment on debt repayment, and put some extra back into hospital budgets, plus add 'birth control' as a universally covered drug for all Ontarians.

I'd also dump the childcare tax credit in favour of more actual subsidized childcare spots.

Do that and I think you've got something worthwhile.

Albeit, they'd be unlikely to attract my vote still; but I would certainly give them due consideration.
 
I personally know renters, who are responsible for hydro (excluding heat and common areas) and who pay $90 in an easy month and upwards of $175 during a/c season in June-September.

So do I. Friends of mine pay up to three times as much as I do. Why? Because their TVs, computers and HVAC units are always on. I don't heat or cool my place except in extreme temperatures (<+30C or <-15C) and then only heat in the am during breakfast and just before bed and cooling overnight and that's with my place not leaving a range of 18-22C without my help. I cook two meals a day...on the stove. I hang dry half my laundry and use my dryer maybe 5 times a month. I clearly use internet-connected devices and have a small music studio. 35-40$ a month.
I know every single accommodation has different conditions regarding insulation, site placement, windows, etc but I honestly find that a lot of people moan about things they have some control over without actually doing anything to better their lot which bothers me because they then try to apportion all blame on others without taking any responsibility for their own actions/inactions.
I laugh at my fool friends all the time regarding this issue. They marvel at my bill yet don't take any of my advice.

I'm a renter as well, for whatever that's worth.
 
Way too busy these days to keep up with all the news, but bless this:

Chris Selley: Christine Elliott to enter Ontario Progressive Conservative leadership race
Elliott is a popular centrist figure in the party — but she ran in 2015 with by far the most support of the Tory caucus, and finished a distant second

Christine Elliott, the former MPP for Whitby-Oshawa and currently Ontario’s Patient Ombudsman, will enter the Progressive Conservative leadership, the National Post has learned — possibly as early as Thursday afternoon. Many in the party had been cajoling her to run, sources say, as she brings legislative experience, centrist bona fides and name recognition to the table — a combination of which no other declared candidate can boast.

“Pretty clear message that there’s a base for Doug Ford and there’s a base for Christine Elliott,” says pollster Greg Lyle of Innovative Research, referring to data he released this week on the leadership race. Twenty-four per cent of respondents picked Elliott among their top three choices in a hypothetical field of nine candidates, while 16 per cent had Ford and Caroline Mulroney in their top three.

Elliott, a lawyer by trade, had the highest “net favourability” rating at 26 per cent: just five per cent of respondents said they had a negative opinion of her, while 31 per cent had a positive one. Ford’s rating, by contrast, was minus 26 per cent.

Lyle’s poll was of the general public, however, not party members, and this would be Elliott’s third attempt at the leadership. In 2009, she criticized eventual winner Tim Hudak as a throwback to the party’s mid-1990s glory years: “What happened in 1995 is not the solution for 2009,” she said. “We have to grow our party.” That message was good for third place behind both Hudak and social-conservative candidate Frank Klees.

Elliott ran again in 2015 with by far the most support of the Tory caucus, but finished a distant second to the now-disgraced Patrick Brown. The common knock is that that she simply didn’t want it enough — a charge current supporters obviously reject, with one citing more than enough “fire in her belly.”

It’s unclear how much room in the race there would be for both Elliott and Mulroney, who both seem to be vying for the same centrist votes — albeit the latter with no experience in public office at all. If Elliott shapes up as the centrist establishment candidate with Ford as the populist disruptor, it will be an interesting dynamic: Elliott and her late husband Jim Flaherty, the former federal Finance Minister, have referred to themselves as friends of the Ford family.

Both Doug and Rob Ford endorsed Elliott in 2015, citing among other things her near-decade of experience at Queen’s Park. “The person that’s going to win the election, I can see now, clearly, it’s going to be Christine,” Rob Ford said. That would be the election that’s coming up on June 7.

http://nationalpost.com/news/chris-...ario-progressive-conservative-leadership-race
 
I’m a Liberal and since Mike Harris, the PC Party is an avowed public enemy number one to me and even I’d consider voting for Christine Elliott on the condition that she lead a minority government that cooperated with the opposition. I would never trust the Conservatives with a majority.

There’s bound to be a renewal where the Liberals will lose power. I’d rather it be her than another Harris Conservative. Will give the Liberal Party some time to rebuild.
 
While many macroeconomic and social indicators *look* good, I question how many Ontarians would say they are in a good position.

Those same polls ask how I feel about my own personal situation to which I always answer, "pretty shit". Then again, it was me who put myself 35k$+ in consumer debt living it up on my travels because I was in my 20s and what a time to live that is. I can't blame anyone else for that. Which is my point about people being very good at moaning about and blaming others for things they have some level of control over.
I have no hope of being financially well-off before I'm 50 and can blame the world all I want for that fact, grousing about how wages need to go up and taxes down so I can afford to pay my debts or about how rents are too high and hydro bills are mad and whoah, they want me to pay road tolls to use a road? That wouldn't do, though, would it? I can only complain if I have done everything I can to improve things I have control over that may have contributed to the state I am in and which leads me to complain about others having done me in.

The sense of frustration and even anger is palpable - workers in SW Ontario losing manufacturing jobs, recent graduates who can't find good work and are stuck in part time retail or restaurant gigs, young families who can't afford even the most modest of homes, pensioners who can't afford their utility bills, and workers of all stripes increasingly facing short term and precarious employment.

I thought the worst was over a decade ago in SW Ontario? I don't have the connections there I did back in 2005-2009 so I'm not sure what it's like on the ground and in the streets anymore. Governments have limited control, through policy, over jobs of any sort (I always want to puke when I hear a pol talk about "creating" jobs) in a free-market economy. If I lose my job and the first thought that occurs to me is to blame the government then I really don't understand how the world works.
All the problems you mention are a function of a free market economy. Do we want a centrally planned economy? Is there a decent hybrid? (China's is a failure of inequality, to start).
How much of any of these problems are under the control of any government?
If I decide to go study something at school that I don't know will lead to employment because it's in a field that isn't in high demand then whose fault is that? I've gone to school for poli sci, design, and psychology. I went into all three because they were of interest to me, not because I thought I'd find a high-paying job on the other end (with the poli sci it likely would have been a wage disaster).

I honestly find that too many people moan and hand out blame to sometimes the wrong people without taking a look in the mirror first...or even thinking about causation.

Pensioners, children, and those not able are allowed to moan. I fully support their complaints if they're well-founded. The able rest of us? Do something for yourself before you ask others to help do things for you.

I am by no means a fan of our current government (except perhaps in things mass transit), but I don't know how much more they can do to make Ontario a place that's good for business. Great education, great healthcare, relatively low business taxes. Ok, so hydro prices may be high, but are they high relative to most other jurisdictions with our level of development? In fact, many of the issues people raise are a symptom of a rambunctious economy. Housing inflation being an example.
 
I don't really understand the interest in Mulroney - if she didn't have her dad's name, would anyone care? As near as I can tell she's just another lawyer with lots of family connections. At least Trudeau was an MP for a while before becoming leader let alone PM. And I don't much like him either.

It's a tough spot. I think every province needs a change in government from time to time, and 15 years is long enough for the current Liberal government. I don't really buy that this is some sort of brand new regime from the McGuinty years. That's demonstrably not the case. It's been Liberal ministers and MPPs pushing the insanity of one-stop Line 2 extension. It was Liberal ministers that sent the subway to Vaughan while the TTC commuting situation has gotten ever worse. They've also managed to bungle health care administration, introducing the LHINs while letting every little hospital keep its board and executive team. Sinai, UHN, and Sick Kids all have their own IT systems despite being next door/across the street. It's insanity.

But I'm not sure about the alternatives. I don't think the PCs are worth trusting on most any important file; Brown's hare-brained scheme to "take over" the subway exemplifies this. The NDP has made noise about hydro - and their PharmaCare plan is far more comprehensive and long-term than the Liberals' smokescreen plan - but they haven't figured out their narrative yet.

The coming election will be unpredictable.
 
I don't really understand the interest in Mulroney - if she didn't have her dad's name, would anyone care? As near as I can tell she's just another lawyer with lots of family connections.
I don't understand the infatuation with Mulroney either, it's like they think she will be their magical savior. I don't see how an individual with zero political experience will help that individual be a leader of any political party. It would just create more infighting for them with other losing candidates just undermining her.

The PCs don't seem to understand that political experience doesn't magically transfer across between generations.
 
If I decide to go study something at school that I don't know will lead to employment because it's in a field that isn't in high demand then whose fault is that? I've gone to school for poli sci, design, and psychology. I went into all three because they were of interest to me, not because I thought I'd find a high-paying job on the other end (with the poli sci it likely would have been a wage disaster).

The government certainly has a role in dealing with exploitative phenomena like the unpaid "internship".

Pensioners, children, and those not able are allowed to moan. I fully support their complaints if they're well-founded. The able rest of us? Do something for yourself before you ask others to help do things for you.

How about those Sears pensioners who've lost everything because governments let hedge funds liquidate assets while leaving pensions unfunded?
 
I did say that governments can influence business decisions through policy and regulation and should do so if it will be a social benefit.

What's happened to Sears, Nortel, etc pensioners is a shameful disgrace as are unpaid internships which are akin to slave labour or at least feudalism (trading experience for free labour).
Pensioners should be first in line as it was their labour that built the company they worked for.
 

Back
Top