News   Aug 07, 2020
 2.3K     5 
News   Aug 07, 2020
 569     0 
News   Aug 07, 2020
 656     0 

2 Bloor West Podium Refurb (Kingsett, 2s, ?)

AlvinofDiaspar

Moderator
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
27,907
Reaction score
16,029
Location
Toronto
Not Foster - that much is clear :D

At this point, 3 out of the 4 corners of Yonge/Bloor would be redeveloped/renovated <warily eying 2BE.

AoD
 

Northern Light

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
May 20, 2007
Messages
6,885
Reaction score
7,652
Location
Toronto/EY
Not Foster - that much is clear :D

At this point, 3 out of the 4 corners of Yonge/Bloor would be redeveloped/renovated <warily eying 2BE.

AoD

Why warily? I would have said hopefully.

2 BE is an ugly honking beast.

For that matter, the entire HBC could be described that way.

Removing it would allow much more cost-effective expansion of the Bloor-Yonge interchange.

Total redevelopment w/double the density and a top tier retail layout could prove highly profitable too.
 

AlvinofDiaspar

Moderator
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
27,907
Reaction score
16,029
Location
Toronto
Why warily? I would have said hopefully.

2 BE is an ugly honking beast.

For that matter, the entire HBC could be described that way.

Removing it would allow much more cost-effective expansion of the Bloor-Yonge interchange.

Total redevelopment w/double the density and a top tier retail layout could prove highly profitable too.
Earily eying precisely because of how is already incredibly ugly - and out of place it will become. I don't think you can totally redevelop the complex and double the density though given there are already a number of towers on the block and there isn't much room to put another one in.

AoD
 

Northern Light

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
May 20, 2007
Messages
6,885
Reaction score
7,652
Location
Toronto/EY
Earily eying precisely because of how is already incredibly ugly - and out of place it will become. I don't think you can totally redevelop the complex and double the density though given there are already a number of towers on the block and there isn't much room to put another one in.

AoD
There is the low(er) rise component of the hotel site; and potentially the Bell site could come into play.

But, I was mainly thinking additional height. The average heigh on the HBC site is well under 40fl.

Given approvals to the south, that are in the 75 storey range, albeit w/residential and not commercial heights, there must be some considerable vertical room.

Something architecturally ambitious using arches and openings could minimize shadowing and even reduce the current shadow effects.
 

Automation Gallery

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
12,332
Reaction score
2,781
Location
South Parkdale
Earily eying precisely because of how is already incredibly ugly - and out of place it will become. I don't think you can totally redevelop the complex and double the density though given there are already a number of towers on the block and there isn't much room to put another one in.

AoD
Ugh? with 2 Bloor east do what they are doing here with the podium all along Bloor street, add another 30-40 storeys over top the office tower and re-clad it:)
 

Irishmonk

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
1,858
Reaction score
695
Location
Hanoi, VN
It's ironic (or maybe just a bummer) that this is actually going to look a hella lot better at street level than 1BE.
 

Tulse

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jan 28, 2010
Messages
2,382
Reaction score
447
So the re-work is only the podium? It will be a bit odd to have such an airy podium below such a materially heavy building.
 

maestro

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
7,189
Reaction score
1,973
LOL. The podium was done less than 10 years ago while the tower will continue to languish with its sun beaten facade. Maybe the tower will be addressed once CIBC departs.
 

maestro

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
7,189
Reaction score
1,973
There is the low(er) rise component of the hotel site; and potentially the Bell site could come into play.

But, I was mainly thinking additional height. The average heigh on the HBC site is well under 40fl.

Given approvals to the south, that are in the 75 storey range, albeit w/residential and not commercial heights, there must be some considerable vertical room.

Something architecturally ambitious using arches and openings could minimize shadowing and even reduce the current shadow effects.
Is it financially worth it to explore that vertical room? It's different when you're assembling and replacing low rise structures with a skyscraper than 40 storeys towers existing on top of a subway line. I think it would be easier to beef up the podium with a few floors of density than to top up or redevelop 400 to 500 foot towers.
 

Avenue

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Messages
910
Reaction score
753
LOL. The podium was done less than 10 years ago while the tower will continue to languish with its sun beaten facade. Maybe the tower will be addressed once CIBC departs.
Actually CIBC isn't a major tenant in this tower. They lease only a couple of floors to my knowledge.
 

Northern Light

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
May 20, 2007
Messages
6,885
Reaction score
7,652
Location
Toronto/EY
Is it financially worth it to explore that vertical room? It's different when you're assembling and replacing low rise structures with a skyscraper than 40 storeys towers existing on top of a subway line. I think it would be easier to beef up the podium with a few floors of density than to top up or redevelop 400 to 500 foot towers.
A fair question.

We'd have to see detailed costs and current and projected revenues to be certain.

That said:

Rebuilding the subway station is a must, with a cost pegged conservatively at 1B.

A huge part of that cost is not the station work per se, but the complexity of weaving in/around HBC's foundations to do the work.

If removing what's on top lowered the cost of the station work to say, 300M, could the City split the difference w/the developer and give back 350M or 50% of the savings? (numbers are purely speculative).

Also, it depends on what the asset can pull per sq ft.

The current space is not 'class A' , tier one space. It has the location, but not the appearance inside or out.

That's true of the office, the retail and the hotel.

I would wage buying out the condo could also work out given the terrible way the building addresses the area, and what could be done in its place.

If you could realistically double the sq ft and double the per sq ft yield, and my feeling is that this probably do-able....then your talking 4x the revenue for the next 100 years.

That sounds pretty tempting to me.
 

maestro

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
7,189
Reaction score
1,973
A fair question.

We'd have to see detailed costs and current and projected revenues to be certain.

That said:

Rebuilding the subway station is a must, with a cost pegged conservatively at 1B.

A huge part of that cost is not the station work per se, but the complexity of weaving in/around HBC's foundations to do the work.

If removing what's on top lowered the cost of the station work to say, 300M, could the City split the difference w/the developer and give back 350M or 50% of the savings? (numbers are purely speculative).

Also, it depends on what the asset can pull per sq ft.

The current space is not 'class A' , tier one space. It has the location, but not the appearance inside or out.

That's true of the office, the retail and the hotel.

I would wage buying out the condo could also work out given the terrible way the building addresses the area, and what could be done in its place.

If you could realistically double the sq ft and double the per sq ft yield, and my feeling is that this probably do-able....then your talking 4x the revenue for the next 100 years.

That sounds pretty tempting to me.
The 300 condos at 8 Park Road would cost several times the building's value to buy out given that we are still in the midst of a condo boom. The others buildings have low vacancy. You'd be giving up secured tenants plus the revenues during the many years of redevelopment for space that may not be wanted at whatever cost per square foot. I don't see demand for a large class AA office building. Yonge & Bloor is a TTC subway hub but, an inconvenience for the rest of the region. Residential is low yield. The redevelopment value is all in the podium but, again, you'd need to make arrangements with Hudson's Bay.
 

Top