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10 Dundas East (former Toronto Life Square, Ent Prop Trust, 10s, Baldwin & Franklin)

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Student99

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If Shoppers Drug Mart does get the naming rights I could see the building's name just getting truncated to Shopper's Centre in common parlance.
That would be really weird... Especially since Shopper's Drug Mart originally got its name from a shopping centre itself. The drug store's first location was at Shopper's World - Danforth I believe.
 

MetroMan

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^ Ha! Didn't know that :) So a drugstore in this building would be called "Shoppers Drug Mart Shopping Centre Drug Mart" lol
 

MetroMan

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Per square foot of retail space, this is one of the most succeful and profitable malls in North America.
Do you have numbers? Retail space in the building is limited to

1 - FutureShop -- this is their most successful location.
2 - Adidas -- This store is a showcase that regularly posts a loss.
3 - Shoppers Drug Mart -- Revenue doesn't match the size of this store.
4 - Smaller stores around the foodcourt and on the along the Yonge St. streetfront that struggle to pay the rent.

The rest are food services, some of which do well, others no so much.
 

GraphicMatt

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Johnny Rockets seem to do well, as all the restaurants do - this area of the city could support way more restaurants.

HAT WORLD seems pretty dead. But that's probably because it's HAT WORLD.
 

taal

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Do you have numbers? Retail space in the building is limited to

1 - FutureShop -- this is their most successful location.
2 - Adidas -- This store is a showcase that regularly posts a loss.
3 - Shoppers Drug Mart -- Revenue doesn't match the size of this store.
4 - Smaller stores around the foodcourt and on the along the Yonge St. streetfront that struggle to pay the rent.

The rest are food services, some of which do well, others no so much.
I think this hints to which store is threating to leave ;) - without you needing to say too much of course. :)
 

dt_toronto_geek

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Don't forget the cinemas, they're a huge draw for this building. In fact, I'd hazard a guess that AMC is the primary anchor tenant.
 

taal

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So here's a question - does anyone believe that no matter the orientation / visual improvements; The food court / lower level / smaller **drab** shops facing Yonge will never be a success due to the Eaton Center directly ? I think I may fall into this camp.

In all honestly, getting up in this complex is simple it's getting down which is awkward but for business that shouldn't matter too much. Do people really care what it looks like on the inside ? I do!, but the majority, would they ?

Earlier Metro Man mentioned they wanted to charge the same rents as the Eaton Center (that's probably very unrealistic) but he also mentioned the Atrium on Bay; Clearly this is a much nicer building (from an aesthetics point of view) but do they really charge the same rent as the Eaton Center (or even similiar) how do the shops do here ? I actually couldn't find any vacancies online but I recall there being some - the resturants seem to do well - but the same can be said about 10 Dundas East (if you cite Woo as a counter example I blame the establishment it self) - does it have a food court ? How does that do.

Anyway, a part of me believes that a re-orientation would be fruitless - what would work would be reconfiguring the space to suite the tenants that do well i.e. convert the bottom floor into one / two large box stores (I can't think of what would use it off the top of my head) - the food court is fine but the little shops on the side just don't work ... make it all office space. Add more entertainment / something on the roof possibly.


What I really hope for, can the outside be completed! Are there any plans to finish many of the design elements (add space) on the outside!
 

JasonParis

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I've heard a rumor that some if not all of HMV is available as a sublease or head lease...also as you may have seen Forever XXI is opening in the eaton centre so I assume the NW corner of Yong e& Dundas is available as well.
The HMV rumour may we be true. I've heard the Annex at least may be going. The Annex is the southern addition to the store that opened in the mid-90s.

Wasn't HMV rennovated much earlier than Metropolis' opening? I think it was closer to when Metropolis was breaking ground, or even before that.
HMV 333 Yonge has had a few renovations, but the major one was indeed a few year's prior to Metropolis' opening.

My bet: Addidas is threatening to move. It's never busy everytime I pass by. Simons would be an awesome addition to the complex. I don't know how - or if - that is possible space wise. Simons needs to get their act together too!
The location might be o.k. for Simons, but I just can't see the building working for their needs/style. I can see them more likely carving a spot out of The Bay at Yonge & Bloor.

Oh and Adidas leaving (or moving) would be great as the complex could then be reoriented to directly face the 'scramble' (as it should have been built).
 

alklay

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I don't get all the "reorientation" discussions. The building openings are certainly oriented well enough (Yonge has smaller shops and fronts, carrying on the tradition of the rest of the street, and the main doors are on Dundas, moving them away from the already too busy intersection and providing some pedestrian flow on Dundas East). The flow inside, while not perfect, is as good as most malls (you walk in and there are escalators going up and down, and most of the escalators flow through a central open core. I am not quite sure what people expected with a stacked retail concept like this). The real problem with the building is...wait....ITS UGLY! Its ugly on the outside and even uglier on the inside. Its cheap looking, not in any way interesting and way below the standards of what a showcase retail building, in a showcase spot, should look like. Add visual interest to the outside, spend some money on the inside and building will be less embarrassing (and probably keep some of the retailers happy).
 

Tulse

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The flow inside, while not perfect, is as good as most malls (you walk in and there are escalators going up and down, and most of the escalators flow through a central open core.
"Most" being the operative word -- the arrangement on the food court floor, with the up and down escalators separated by the length of the building, is particularly confusing and egregious. (I understand that there is a need to provide an easy traffic path for exiting theatre patrons, but there should be another down escalator parallel to the up escalator, as it is in almost every other escalator installation ever.)

The real problem with the building is...wait....ITS UGLY!
No argument there.
 

whatever

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There is no flow inside the building, and that's the problem. It's basically a stacked series of dead ends. Putting the entrance at the corner and then punching another access through to the northeast would fix it in a heartbeat. Ryerson students could use the building as a shortcut, creating actual walkby traffic through the mall.
 

dt_toronto_geek

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So here's a question - does anyone believe that no matter the orientation / visual improvements; The food court / lower level / smaller **drab** shops facing Yonge will never be a success due to the Eaton Center directly ? I think I may fall into this camp.

In all honestly, getting up in this complex is simple it's getting down which is awkward but for business that shouldn't matter too much. Do people really care what it looks like on the inside ? I do!, but the majority, would they ?
Full disclosure, shopping malls give me a headache so I avoid them as much as I can. The lighting in most malls, the smells and visual overload have me in headache hell within 20-30 minutes. 10 Dundas doesn't but when I plan to see a film there (the only time I actually enter the "mall" part) I have a subconscious reaction as I find getting up there to be a stressful, arduous process - but I do like the AMC lobby and cinemas once I get there. The mall area needs to be beautified, it has an unfinished utilitarian look to it that I find both displeasing and embarrassing. In short, it's a disaster. Future Shop is too bright however I do frequent it (and Best Buy) but I go in knowing what I want/need and leave, I don't browse. The shops along Yonge and Dundas streets are, to my mind, the most successful part of the project, I don't find them drab at all - though I do prefer what used to sit here before it all got bulldozed. The north and west facing upper exteriors are just plain embarrassing, I don't know what can be done here short of applying to rezone those areas for more ad space to cover up or help distract from that unsightly siding. Re-orientating the entrance to where Adidas is would create a more grand entrance to the complex, but I'm not convinced the stores within the mall would do any better business because of this.
 

TonyV

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Full disclosure, shopping malls give me a headache so I avoid them as much as I can. The lighting in most malls, the smells and visual overload have me in headache hell within 20-30 minutes. 10 Dundas doesn't but when I plan to see a film there (the only time I actually enter the "mall" part) I have a subconscious reaction as I find getting up there to be a stressful, arduous process - but I do like the AMC lobby and cinemas once I get there. The mall area needs to be beautified, it has an unfinished utilitarian look to it that I find both displeasing and embarrassing. In short, it's a disaster. Future Shop is too bright however I do frequent it (and Best Buy) but I go in knowing what I want/need and leave, I don't browse. The shops along Yonge and Dundas streets are, to my mind, the most successful part of the project, I don't find them drab at all - though I do prefer what used to sit here before it all got bulldozed. The north and west facing upper exteriors are just plain embarrassing, I don't know what can be done here short of applying to rezone those areas for more ad space to cover up or help distract from that unsightly siding. Re-orientating the entrance to where Adidas is would create a more grand entrance to the complex, but I'm not convinced the stores within the mall would do any better business because of this.
Hi DT, we're a lot alike in this respect. Shopping malls give me a headache too. Given the choice on even a nasty winter day, if I'm in a wistful mood, I will do Bloor instead of going indoors to Eaton Centre.

I think it's a pity that they've pulled the street system indoors in Yonge's Queen-to-Dundas stretch. This has been a detriment to Yonge, in general, that's my belief.
 

junctionist

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Build an ugly and poorly designed mall among a group of better designed options yet offering the same sorts of products isn't a recipe for success. People care about design, though sometimes they're not even conscious of it. If a building looks ugly, a person with some money to spend may be discouraged from stepping inside. Most people don't care about design or aesthetics? That's not what the fashion, electronics, and movie industries suggest.
 

Jonny5

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So here's a question - does anyone believe that no matter the orientation / visual improvements; The food court / lower level / smaller **drab** shops facing Yonge will never be a success due to the Eaton Center directly ? I think I may fall into this camp.
Those stores facing Yonge include a Rogers outlet and Chipotle, both of which look consistently busy. Chipotle is rather unique to the area and I don't think is threatened by the Eaton Centre, unless they open a location in the new food-court. The Roger's outlet is doing well considering there's probably another 10 within a 10 minute walk, including one in the Eaton Centre. I agree the basement stores are a write off though. It looks like a discount clothing liquidator has taken one of the spaces, which really takes the feel of the place down a few notches.
 
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