Finch West Line 6 LRT

[yrt+viva=1system]

Not a scientifically empirically backed explanation but here are some pics of the rails between the Eglinton and Finch LRT. You can see the wheel-rail interface difference with the shine. These are taken at station stops.

Eglinton LRT:

Finch LRT:

The wheel profile on the Eglinton LRT seems to be very similar to the profile that the TTC uses for the subway.

 

[smallspy]

So I really gotta ask, 'cause I dont have much knowledge on this particular part-- how in the world did Alstom screw it up? What in did the Citadis Spirit have that the Dualis did not, that made Ottawa and Metrolinx choose the Spirit, and how in the world did the Spitits end up so damn unreliable and problematic? The Citadis line has sold countless trams, it's not like Alstom's new to this.

The Citadis Spririt has a new truck design which, as far as I can tell, is unprecedented in its use under a low-floor LRT car. It is an inside-framed truck with swing link suspension - but with motors and gearboxes mounted outboard of the wheels. All of those things have long existed independently of each other in the railroad world and without issue, but not all in one package like here. The more and more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that it must be changed.

Dan

 

[APTA-2048]

Will be interesting to see what changes will be made for Quebec’s Citadis Spirit LRVs. Neither Quebec nor Toronto have the same requirements as Ottawa did. So it would make sense to use a less problematic design going forward.

Toronto only got Ottawa clones because Metrolinx panicked and bought cars they didn’t really need.

 

[nfitz]

Not a scientifically empirically backed explanation but here are some pics of the rails between the Eglinton and Finch LRT. You can see the wheel-rail interface difference with the shine. These are taken at station stops.

Is there more wear on Eglinton where the trains are stopping? (which would be a downside of ATC).

 

[urbanclient]

Is there more wear on Eglinton where the trains are stopping? (which would be a downside of ATC).

I am very certain that ATC is supposed to result in less wear than manual operations, barring exceptions like Line 5 slamming on the magnetic track brakes due to intrusions and software bugs.

 

[nfitz]

I am very certain that ATC is supposed to result in less wear than manual operations, barring exceptions like Line 5 slamming on the magnetic track brakes due to intrusions and software bugs.

Wouldn't the breaking and acceleration be more specific to a certain very small piece of track, for each wheel? In a bigger picture, they certainly replace the streetcar track at stops more frequently, and I'd have guessed that it would only be more so if they stopped at exactly the same spot every time. Though perhaps the software varies the stopping location by a small amount each time - after 50 years of ATC operations I guess this isn't exactly cutting edge issues.

But I'm pulling it out of my ass ...

 

[urbanclient]

Wouldn't the breaking and acceleration be more specific to a certain very small piece of track, for each wheel? In a bigger picture, they certainly replace the streetcar track at stops more frequently, and I'd have guessed that it would only be more so if they stopped at exactly the same spot every time. Though perhaps the software varies the stopping location by a small amount each time - after 50 years of ATC operations I guess this isn't exactly cutting edge issues.

But I'm pulling it out of my ass ...

You're not totally wrong, as far as I know ATC is supposed make the acceleration and braking more predictable, and more gradual in Toronto's case (unfortunately?)

A human operator can put the pedal to the metal metaphorically like on Line 2. They may stay on the throttle too long, brake too late, too hard, leading to more use of the friction brakes relative to regen brakes, more wear for everything, more brake dust.

 

[yrt+viva=1system]

Is there more wear on Eglinton where the trains are stopping? (which would be a downside of ATC).

Good question, I’m not sure if there is more wear. Usually stations and stops have more wear in general.

The photos that I had taken was to try to show how the wheel profile contacts with the railhead. This effects the ride quality of vehicles.

 

[Leo_Chan]

I diverted my commute one hour and have taken my very first ride on 6 FW leaving Humber 12:02 EB, arrive 12:40

Will do some more analysis later on the data as ive taken a gpx, incl. theoretical times, but initial points:

38 mins end to end. 16.3kmh avg
18 greens and 5 reds. (Ped crossing not included- Green) Two greens were clipped (Tram slowed for a red then light turned green)
Every single red was clipped, followed by the left turn phase. All reds could have been avoided if left turns ran first, but then we would have caught some 5 reds waiting for lefts to go first... to literally nobody's surprise who paid attention to @reaperexpress, moving the left turn phase to after through traffic doesnt increase green time... We need phase rotation

Additional thoughts:
- I like the foamer window.
- The trams dont seem to take the humber curve nicely.
- Smooth, but feels more like rail thats been roughed in for some tibe, like on the streetcar network, not new rail like line 5
- Operators are incredibly cautious with speed. They are usually slowed down well before the intersection. Does the station slowzone apply to the the platform on the opposite direction???
- Whoever thought to install a big handbar right in front of the screens should have their sanity checked.

View attachment 722989

The handlebar blocking the screen was my first thought once stepping on the trains.

 

[pmacpherson68]

Will be interesting to see what changes will be made for Quebec’s Citadis Spirit LRVs. Neither Quebec nor Toronto have the same requirements as Ottawa did. So it would make sense to use a less problematic design going forward.

Toronto only got Ottawa clones because Metrolinx panicked and bought cars they didn’t really need.

I know eh... there was actually a time when Metrolinx thought that the line would be ready before the cars... lol

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

Wouldn't the breaking and acceleration be more specific to a certain very small piece of track, for each wheel? In a bigger picture, they certainly replace the streetcar track at stops more frequently, and I'd have guessed that it would only be more so if they stopped at exactly the same spot every time. Though perhaps the software varies the stopping location by a small amount each time - after 50 years of ATC operations I guess this isn't exactly cutting edge issues.

But I'm pulling it out of my ass ...

Similar occurrence at bus stops with asphalt depressions caused by the heavy buses.

Toronto is having to use concrete instead of asphalt to reduce that problem. Wonder if they do allow for replacement tracks at streetcars, light rail, and subways wherever they stop for the same reason?