Ontario Northland/Northern Ontario Transportation

[lenaitch]

You said you used to be police. Why not ticket them and let the judge decide? In a storm like this, those plows need all the space they can get, and having a truck in their way does not help.

I would assume that if it interfering with their operations they would radio it in. When things are busy, like during major weather events, you focus on the important stuff. Incidents, like collisions, vehicles in the ditch, etc. have to be responded to. Keep in mind that the police don't just do highway patrol.

For the record, I don't think I ever did. It's like no parking/camping in roadside rest stops. I'm not sure anybody cares. Heck, when I was young, they were my camp sites on bike trips. We even stayed at one on the Moon River during a canoe trip where it passed under Hwy 103/69.

 

[Krypto98]

They already do have a small crew based in North Bay, but most of the crew are based in Englehart.

Yeah, that's just yard operations. They don't really have the road manpower to support it out of north bay yet. So I heard they were gonna just run it out of Engleheart to Toronto (both trains). CN doesn't want to run it anymore for some reason. I heard 9-12 jobs will be lost in the Toronto Terminal

 

[CMQSD402F9011]

Yeah, that's just yard operations. They don't really have the road manpower to support it out of north bay yet. So I heard they were gonna just run it out of Engleheart to Toronto (both trains). CN doesn't want to run it anymore for some reason. I heard 9-12 jobs will be lost in the Toronto Terminal

I wonder if MX or TTC subway operations will take those 9-12 jobs that were lost on CN?

 

[micheal_can]

Yeah, that's just yard operations. They don't really have the road manpower to support it out of north bay yet. So I heard they were gonna just run it out of Engleheart to Toronto (both trains). CN doesn't want to run it anymore for some reason. I heard 9-12 jobs will be lost in the Toronto Terminal

Wouldn't Englehart to Washago/MackYard be too far in one go for the freight?

 

[lenaitch]

1. I would have thought the lion’s share of track improvements would have occurred before now — it’s been several years. The province buying the route suggests they intend to upgrade … but when?
2. Those who rode the old Northlander may recall one of the roughest sections was near Lake Simcoe, in the portion still owned by CN.
I used to dread that zone; one jolt was quite noticeable— even alarming.

What track work has been done along the route; are there any reports?
From my post on X:

https://twitter.com/x/status/2033534985160802389

View attachment 722452

The track improvement completed by the ONR have been on their own trackage north of North Bay. Any work they wanted done south of the city would have to be done by paying CN to do it. The only thing I have seen is some crossing protection upgrades.

 

[reaperexpress]

The track improvement completed by the ONR have been on their own trackage north of North Bay. Any work they wanted done south of the city would have to be done by paying CN to do it. The only thing I have seen is some crossing protection upgrades.

I was curious how the different segments currently compare, so I plotted the Proposed Service Schedule against the station locations. The distances are a bit off since I measured them using a quick trace of the line - my total came out to 733 km when it's actually 740 km (1% error). The end-to-end travel time is 10h40 and the average speed is 69 km/h.

Each row represents the measurement between that station and the previous one. So the first row is blank - the T is just a placeholder to look like a skewer. Apart from Englehart and North Bay, the times include a station dwell (3 minutes if it's similar to Via). That's probably why the average speed between Gormley and Langstaff is so low - it's simply not very far and a decent proportion of the travel time is just station dwell.

The newly bought segment between North Bay and Gravenhurst does seem like it has a lot of room for improvement, especially between North Bay and South River, and between Gravenhurst and Washago.

 

[lenaitch]

I wonder if MX or TTC subway operations will take those 9-12 jobs that were lost on CN?

I'm not sure how that would work without a new crew base in NB. As mentioned, it's too far from Englehart to Toronto. Also, it's not the same train. The trains that comes south from the north aren't simply parked waiting for a CN crew to take it onward. A lot of the s/b ONR traffic into NB does, in fact, end up heading south to Toronto, but not all of it. You can see them building the train from the highway.

 

[micheal_can]

I was curious how the different segments currently compare, so I plotted the Proposed Service Schedule against the station locations. The distances are a bit off since I measured them using a quick trace of the line - my total came out to 733 km when it's actually 740 km (1% error). The end-to-end travel time is 10h40 and the average speed is 69 km/h.

Each row represents the measurement between that station and the previous one. So the first row is blank - the T is just a placeholder to look like a skewer. Apart from Englehart and North Bay, the times include a station dwell (3 minutes if it's similar to Via). That's probably why the average speed between Gormley and Langstaff is so low - it's simply not very far and a decent proportion of the travel time is just station dwell.
View attachment 722627
The newly bought segment between North Bay and Gravenhurst does seem like it has a lot of room for improvement, especially between North Bay and South River, and between Gravenhurst and Washago.

I know no one is expecting high speed on this route, but improving the segments where they can to get it closer to that average speed would improve overall rider experience, and would help in the event of slow travel speed due to congestion south of Washago.

 

[Bordercollie]

I'm surprised that there are no 75mph sections.

 

[Bojaxs]

I was curious how the different segments currently compare, so I plotted the Proposed Service Schedule against the station locations. The distances are a bit off since I measured them using a quick trace of the line - my total came out to 733 km when it's actually 740 km (1% error). The end-to-end travel time is 10h40 and the average speed is 69 km/h.

Each row represents the measurement between that station and the previous one. So the first row is blank - the T is just a placeholder to look like a skewer. Apart from Englehart and North Bay, the times include a station dwell (3 minutes if it's similar to Via). That's probably why the average speed between Gormley and Langstaff is so low - it's simply not very far and a decent proportion of the travel time is just station dwell.
View attachment 722627
The newly bought segment between North Bay and Gravenhurst does seem like it has a lot of room for improvement, especially between North Bay and South River, and between Gravenhurst and Washago.

With the Province's recent purchase of track from CN, I hope the two parties have also had discussions about grade separating the Doncaster diamond. Similar to the Davenport diamond.

 

[reaperexpress]

I'm surprised that there are no 75mph sections.

Who says there aren't 75 mph sections? I don't think we've heard what the new track speeds will be on the upgraded segment from North Bay to Timmins. I wouldn't be surprised if the track speed were 80 mph between New Liskeard (Timiskaming Shores) and Englehart for example.

 

[Fritter]

With the Province's recent purchase of track from CN, I hope the two parties have also had discussions about grade separating the Doncaster diamond. Similar to the Davenport diamond.

I suspect that between Richmond Hill GO trips and 1 train each direction for ONR per day going North/South through the diamond there just isn't the traffic to justify the expense. Dramatically increase GO trips, increase daily ONR trips and maybe return the Southbound Canadian to daily trips, it might approach justification.

 

[Bojaxs]

I suspect that between Richmond Hill GO trips and 1 train each direction for ONR per day going North/South through the diamond there just isn't the traffic to justify the expense. Dramatically increase GO trips, increase daily ONR trips and maybe return the Southbound Canadian to daily trips, it might approach justification.

I would imagine CN would have a vested interested in grade separating the diamond.

They were quick to remove the rail diamond west of Brampton GO after the OBR was shut down because apparently rail diamonds cause extra wear & tear on the wheels.

 

[Krypto98]

I wonder if MX or TTC subway operations will take those 9-12 jobs that were lost on CN?

Lol I doubt that. ONR has been trying to recruit CN guys to run the trains because they don't actually have the man power to run the trains but CN doesn't want to run them.

 

[EdDrass]

The old route? Do they mean the old Newmarket Sub that is no longer active, or do they mean the Bala sub, of which is in good shape?

So I was referring to the Bala sub, specifically east of Lake Simcoe.
When I rode the Northlander before it was cancelled I found this area to include the roughest track of my trips which were Union <> Huntsville.
Glad to hear if this has been improved.
How do Canadian long distance passenger rail speeds compare to Amtrak (using freight-owned) tracks?