narduch
Senior Member
Lots of internet chatter that the US is massively down playing their own casualties too.
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News from the Middle East
- Thread starter AlbertC
- Start date
Richard White
Senior Member
That wouldn't surprise me.
If the US starting losing personnel significantly that would cause issues for Trump. He would be forced out office faster than you can say MAGA
kEiThZ
Superstar
Yes. Because public sentiment has nothing to do with how wars work. Aside from the "defenceless" claim being questionable (warships almost never are and they were returning from a live fire exercise), we also know from survivors that they were asked to return to port and the CO refused:
US submarine captain gave Iran crew two warnings before torpedoing it
At least 87 sailors have been confirmed dead and a further 78 wounded after an 'explosion' hit the 180-crew frigate IRIS Dena, around 25 miles south of Indian Ocean island.
This is no different than the Allies and Axis forces sinking each others ships during WWII. Or the Argentinians and British doing the same during the Falklands war. It's been several generations since we've fought large state on state wars that we've forgotten how brutal they are.
You may not like the US. But that doesn't make everything they do automatically a war crime. A military unit of either side, be that a ship or a logistics truck is a legitimate target. And if it was the other way and the Iranians sank an American destroyer, I would have said exactly the same thing. Legitimate target.
Should note too, that subsequent to the sinking of the Dena, the other Iranian ship entered Sri Lanka and was seized by authorities there. That crew gets to sit out the war.
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kEiThZ
Superstar
Pure conspiratorial nonsense. I've said this before. It's really hard to hide casualties in the US. If reporters have been able to use social media in Russia to track a six figure number of deaths, just imagine how much easier that would be in the US.
The reality is that the US and Israel aren't risking much in personnel with an air war. And the few bases attacked early where they did lose personnel were basically unprotected outposts, like the ops centre in a trailer in Kuwait where they lost 6.
People just don't want to believe the count is so lopsided. Ergo the conspiracy theories. I have no doubt that the Administration doesn't want to talk about casualties. And will refuse to do so when pressed. But that doesn't mean that the government departments themselves are under-reporting.
Northern Light
Superstar
narduch
Senior Member
The Americans would never lie
Full Metal Junkie
Senior Member
Accountability and admiring their own mistakes has never been something this administration is capable of. Even the whole "we're investigating" is a farse. They're hoping to sweep it under the rug. If we don't talk about it, it will go away. Served them well so far. The news cycle has the attention span of a gen alpha with a terminal stage of tiktok brainrot. The news cycle moves on.
As far as Trump's comments, clearly he bought into the slopaganda going around the twitterwebs. It's pretty clear that his only sources of information are FOX "news" and whatever right winger slopaganda he finds on Xitter these days. Who needs national security advisors and pentagon when you can just look up who bombed the school on Xitter and find a tweet to support the exact opinion you'd like to believe in?
kEiThZ
Superstar
Who are "the Americans"?
I have zero doubts that the Administration would lie. But covering up deaths includes thousands of low level public servants and military personnel co-operating. That's why these conspiracies don't make sense.
For context, in Russia nobody really cares if survivor benefits aren't paid out. And state controlled media don't report the theft of benefits and pensions. You don't think we'll see endless news coverage if war widows aren't being paid in the US?
kEiThZ
Superstar
Obama famously read 50 page briefing binders every night. This guy is up at all hours tweeting. I've briefed some very senior people before. I can't imagine the nightmare it is designing briefs for a guy who doesn't even bother to read them.
That said, Trump is a reflection of modern society at large. Epitome of "I do my own research.". His disdain for policy experts and generals is no different than when he didn't listen to Dr. Fauci and the CDC during COVID. And, unfortunately, disdain for expertise is rather widespread on both sides of the political spectrum. All that's different are the topics on which people are particularly disdainful.
I particularly enjoy the fighter ops Wikipedia experts over the last year who have never seen a flight line but will confidently tell me why xyz airplane is "the best".
kEiThZ
Superstar
Depends on your definition of "mobilized" I guess?
I fully expect they would try to snatch nuclear material if they can. Not sure the 82nd alone can do that. That would be a substantial effort with hundreds to thousands of troops, special forces and even actual nuclear scientists flown in. We're talking about taking over and then dismantling some nuclear facilities of a hostile adversary.
Beyond that it's mostly special forces and these (mostly) guys:
Special Activities Center - Wikipedia
They are all most certainly on the ground. None of them wear uniforms. Most or all will speak the language of the region (the US invests billions in language training and cultural fluency for their military and intelligence). Some might even have heritage from there. They can blend in more easily that most people would think. They are probably running around trying to coordinate with any rebel groups they can find. And will probably try and assassinate key IRGC figures left. But this is a number in the dozens.
I don't think they will ever put boots on the ground long term like an occupation. I could honestly see them letting Iran fail over actually occupying it. And honestly, I actually fear there's a divergence of interests here. The Administration might be fine with Islamic Republic 2.0. Netanyahu though, appears to favour chaos and balkanization over any sort of regime leftover. And as the last week has progressed, it's really becoming apparent that he's driving the bus.
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narduch
Senior Member
Seems to be a spike of deaths due to 'non-combat incidents' at American bases in the Middle East. Must be a coincidence.
afransen
Senior Member
And Hamas got the war they wanted. Both sides have acted appallingly.
October 7 Crimes Against Humanity, War Crimes by Hamas-led Groups
Hamas’ military wing – the Qassam Brigades – and at least four other Palestinian armed groups committed numerous war crimes and crimes against humanity against civilians during the October 7, 2023 assault on southern Israel. Governments with influence over the armed groups should press for the...
afransen
Senior Member
Is the US understating the number of casualties, or just expecting a lot more in the coming days?
www.militarytimes.com
Largest US military hospital abroad halts labor, delivery services amid Iran war
The Landstuhl Regional Medical Center in Germany is pausing its labor and delivery services to focus on its “primary objective,” a memo states.
www.militarytimes.com
afransen
Senior Member
Do you mean the warship off Sri Lanka?
narduch
Senior Member
Yes and the Americans pleading with Sri Lanka to not rescue the survivors is another war crime by the way