The coming $26 billion windfall for the Canadian Armed Forces. What to buy?

[Lennox970]

Hopefully there aren't some unintended consequences with the new national defense strategy to buy Canadian. The Pentagon mostly considers Canadian suppliers as domestic and allows them to compete with U.S. firms. They could respond with similar measures.

Good point, the US is unsurprisingly the largest export customer (two-thirds of exports, one-third of industry output - double check my maths)

The latest stats that I can find from Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada: State of Canada's Defence Industry 2024. The Globe article lists the sectors that the government is singling out, so the doubling is not across the board.

Potentially, a good idea, but will have to see plenty of thought given to upstream elements, skills, private investment, infrastructure supply chains, etc., etc. Plus, many other national defence industries - potential competitors- are gearing up at the same time (e.g. EU). Ultimate success will require a generation of effort (and money) and, crucially, support across party lines that defence is a priority.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Hopefully there aren't some unintended consequences with the new national defense strategy to buy Canadian. The Pentagon mostly considers Canadian suppliers as domestic and allows them to compete with U.S. firms. They could respond with similar measures.

Here are the top defence firms in Canada.

Canadian Defence Companies in Canada

Explore the top Canadian defence companies ranked by CDR. Discover leading defence contractors and their role in supporting Canada’s military.

canadiandefencereview.com

Much of this is US sub subsidiary work, and might as well be considered US domestic.

 

[kEiThZ]

Ottawa plans to double defence exports, create 125,000 jobs in next decade

Federal government aims to boost Canada’s economy through increased defence spending

www.theglobeandmail.com

Increasing Canadian defence exports is well and good, provided we don’t count in our success metrics those of wholly-US owned subsidiaries operating in Canada, such as GDLS Canada and Lockheed-Martin Canada.

Company ownership is not in the strategy. Workshare and IP ownership are. So LMC building the CMS330 and selling it from Canada will be seen as Canadian.

 

[hw621]

Here are the top defence firms in Canada.

Canadian Defence Companies in Canada

Explore the top Canadian defence companies ranked by CDR. Discover leading defence contractors and their role in supporting Canada’s military.

canadiandefencereview.com

Much of this is US sub subsidiary work, and might as well be considered US domestic.

One of the reasons why Trump thinks they own us...

 

[Admiral Beez]

Company ownership is not in the strategy. Workshare and IP ownership are. So LMC building the CMS330 and selling it from Canada will be seen as Canadian.

With all profits going to the US. But yes, I can see your point. Such sales would be considered Canadian.

 

[kEiThZ]

With all profits going to the US. But yes, I can see your point. Such sales would be considered Canadian.

The government cares about jobs and spending in the economy. Not about where profits go.

 

[hw621]

The government cares about jobs and spending in the economy. Not about where profits go.

given these profits are properly taxed...

 

[Admiral Beez]

The government cares about jobs and spending in the economy. Not about where profits go.

Contracts with and exports from the likes of Lockheed-Martin Canada and GDLS Canada may lead to more jobs and investment in Canada, but that’s not what Canadians have in mind when Carney sells the idea of separation from the US defence establishment.

 

[kEiThZ]

Contracts with and exports from the likes of Lockheed-Martin Canada and GDLS Canada may lead to more jobs and investment in Canada, but that’s not what Canadians have in mind when Carney sells the idea of separation from the US defence establishment.

I honestly believe that Canadians are mostly talk and care about jobs than anything else.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Doug Ford urges Mark Carney to boost Ontario shipbuilding under new defence plan

It's time for Ontario's ship to come in, Premier Doug Ford says, calling on the federal government to give the province a bigger share of defence equipment spending.

www.thestar.com

https://archive.is/Y7GNL

The Welland yard have done some repair and refit work for the navy, but I think it's a stretch for Ontario to build anything for the RCN. AFAIK, Ontario shipyards have not built a warship or any vessel for the RCN since WW2. Here's some interesting history of Toronto's wartime shipyard. Fifty-Six Minesweepers and the Toronto Shipbuilding Company during the Second World War

 

[lenaitch]

Doug Ford urges Mark Carney to boost Ontario shipbuilding under new defence plan

It's time for Ontario's ship to come in, Premier Doug Ford says, calling on the federal government to give the province a bigger share of defence equipment spending.

www.thestar.com

https://archive.is/Y7GNL

The Welland yard have done some repair and refit work for the navy, but I think it's a stretch for Ontario to build anything for the RCN. AFAIK, Ontario shipyards have not built a warship or any vessel for the RCN since WW2. Here's some interesting history of Toronto's wartime shipyard. Fifty-Six Minesweepers and the Toronto Shipbuilding Company during the Second World War

From what little I know about the industry, there is a significant difference between a build yard and a repair yard. Because of the boom-bust nature of large shipbuilding in Canada (which is largely government contracts, the federal government has already tossed a lot of money at coastal shipyards just to get them in shape for modern shipbuilding. Add onto that, anything that gets built in the Great Lakes has to be Seaway max in dimensions unless they can convince them they can be build modules that can be shipped to a coast - somehow.

 

[Admiral Beez]

From what little I know about the industry, there is a significant difference between a build yard and a repair yard. Because of the boom-bust nature of large shipbuilding in Canada (which is largely government contracts, the federal government has already tossed a lot of money at coastal shipyards just to get them in shape for modern shipbuilding. Add onto that, anything that gets built in the Great Lakes has to be Seaway max in dimensions unless they can convince them they can be build modules that can be shipped to a coast - somehow.

All valid points but the last. The largest warship operated by the RCN, the aircraft carrier HMCS Bonaventure would fit down the Seaway with room to spare.

Facts & Figures - Great Lakes St. Lawrence Seaway System

Opened to deep draft navigation in 1959. Lock systems: Montreal to Lake Ontario - 2 U.S., 5 Canadian Welland Canal - 8 Canadian St. Mary's River - 4 U.S.

greatlakes-seaway.com

 

[afransen]

Doug Ford urges Mark Carney to boost Ontario shipbuilding under new defence plan

It's time for Ontario's ship to come in, Premier Doug Ford says, calling on the federal government to give the province a bigger share of defence equipment spending.

www.thestar.com

https://archive.is/Y7GNL

The Welland yard have done some repair and refit work for the navy, but I think it's a stretch for Ontario to build anything for the RCN. AFAIK, Ontario shipyards have not built a warship or any vessel for the RCN since WW2. Here's some interesting history of Toronto's wartime shipyard. Fifty-Six Minesweepers and the Toronto Shipbuilding Company during the Second World War

In theory, something the size of the River class could navigate the St Lawrence Seaway. Maybe not the craziest idea to build for the Navy in say Hamilton. Large industrial workforce and proximity to steelmaking.

 

[afransen]

Sure. If the rate of shipbuilding needs to rise, I don't see why we should discount doing some of it in Ontario, given that this is the country's industrial heartland.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Some interesting info on shipbuilding in Ontario. Though our shipyards seem to focus on repair and maintenance rather than new construction.