Finch West Line 6 LRT

[nfitz]

Dont speak too soon. The existing Crosstown vehicles are no longer being made. Once the Eglinton line wants to upgrade to longer trains, I wholly expect MX to chose Alstom Citadis as the new trains, since they are the vehicles of choice for the Hurontario Line as well, and they will want to keep things similar/strike up a deal with Alstom. 2 Citadis' paired together is about the same length (96m) as 3 Flexity Freedoms (93m) Im sure the doors will fit on the platforms, even if the train is a bit longer.

If Metrolinx requested a price for new Flexity vehicles - that are still being manufactured for European countries - I'm sure they'd get one. They are all bespoke anyhow.

There'd have to be alterations to the Citadis design, as I doubt they'll be wanting to run 90-metre trains yet, so they'd need a 30ish-metre version.

I also expect MX to chose them because they are incapable of making good decisions LOL

And that's probably why we'll end up with Citadis.

 

[Aplus23]

I'm stuck in traffic on Finch going for my lunch, and the lrt stopped at a stop, picked up. passengers and took off, meanwhile I haven't even made it to the light yet

 

[Bordercollie]

So why are line 6 trains required to enter above ground stations at a crawl and cross intersections at a crawl but line 5 does not?

Is that an operational decision? Made by who?
Why are line 6 trains limited to 40kmph but line 5 trains travel as fast as cars?
Also line 5 cars do not dwell for 3 minutes. They open the door and as soon as everyone has boarded it closes the door.
That curve near number is not that sharp.

Following the same operating standard for line 6 would be a 50% improvement.

The question is why the difference in operating standard between the two?

Seems like Mosaic is the problem.

 

[Bordercollie]

If Metrolinx requested a price for new Flexity vehicles - that are still being manufactured for European countries - I'm sure they'd get one. They are all bespoke anyhow.

There'd have to be alterations to the Citadis design, as I doubt they'll be wanting to run 90-metre trains yet, so they'd need a 30ish-metre version.

And that's probably why we'll end up with Citadis.

Right trying to operate a line with two different kinds of equipment on such a short line would be a nightmare.

Alstom now owns the rights to both vehicles so there is no reason why they can't be built.

Why not use them on the Hamilton LRT?

As well as the ION extension to Cambridge.

 

[jmi22]

Part of the problem is the main demographic of people obsessing over this do not live along Finch. They are obsessed with end to end travel time, when the line is meant to service people living in between the two ends of the line.

I thank god every day that such viewpoints were laughed out of the room during the construction of Line 2, as someone who lives along Bloor and is in fact quite concerned about it's speed, a factor which you seem interested in misrepresenting by describing it as "end to end travel time". Just say speed, we all know what you're talking about.

 

[duffo]

I thank god every day that such viewpoints were laughed out of the room during the construction of Line 2, as someone who lives along Bloor and is in fact quite concerned about it's speed, a factor which you seem interested in misrepresenting by describing it as "end to end travel time". Just say speed, we all know what you're talking about.

man, people love to ragebait here . No one is saying the line should be slow.

all I'm saying is that people are in here complaining that the LRT is slower than a non-stop highway GO bus that can go from Line 1 to Humber College in 20 mins. let's remove all the stops along the LRT and see if that makes it more useful to residents on Finch...

 

[Bordercollie]

I thank god every day that such viewpoints were laughed out of the room during the construction of Line 2, as someone who lives along Bloor and is in fact quite concerned about it's speed, a factor which you seem interested in misrepresenting by describing it as "end to end travel time". Just say speed, we all know what you're talking about.

It doesn't do either actually

 

[T3G]

all I'm saying is that people are in here complaining that the LRT is slower than a non-stop highway GO bus that can go from Line 1 to Humber College in 20 mins. let's remove all the stops along the LRT and see if that makes it more useful to residents on Finch...

Well, the official narrative on here these days is that local transit service is verboten, and everything MUST serve a cross regional purpose, so no wonder. But I agree with you, comparing local transit and GO buses is pretty inane.

 

[turbanplanner]

I'm stuck in traffic on Finch going for my lunch, and the lrt stopped at a stop, picked up. passengers and took off, meanwhile I haven't even made it to the light yet

How can we be sure you're not secretly the 36 finch bus?

 

[jmi22]

It doesn't do either actually

The time in which it takes an object to move between it's starting point and destination is not what we commonly understand to be it's speed?

 

[yrt+viva=1system]

After riding the Crosstown earlier this evening and now on the Finch West LRT, transit signal priority alone will not help save this line from its failure.

When cars and the bus are passing by at 7:30 pm with no traffic whatsoever, there is something inherently wrong with the operations and speed restrictions. It is so slow in comparison with the Crosstown. Operations need to be significantly more aggressive and the ridiculous speed restrictions need to be rescinded. It is without a doubt slower than the 510 and the 512.

Apparently the City set a speed limit but the TTC deliberately forgot about it:

Steve: In 2021, Council set a special policy for Finch Avenue that the LRT speed limit is 60 km/h. This overrides lower limits for road traffic. It is entirely possible that this decision was forgotten, or that an overly conservative TTC does not take advantage of it.

https://secure.toronto.ca/council/agenda-item.do?item=2021.IE23.17

 

[turbanplanner]

After riding the Crosstown earlier this evening and now on the Finch West LRT, transit signal priority alone will not help save this line from its failure.

When cars and the bus are passing by at 7:30 pm with no traffic whatsoever, there is something inherently wrong with the operations and speed restrictions. It is so slow in comparison with the Crosstown. Operations need to be significantly more aggressive and the ridiculous speed restrictions need to be rescinded. It is without a doubt slower than the 510 and the 512.

Apparently the City set a speed limit but the TTC deliberately forgot about it:



https://secure.toronto.ca/council/agenda-item.do?item=2021.IE23.17

The same TTC that forgot they approved adding turns to rebuilt intersections!

"The TTC has confirmed that although the Board approved addition of a north-to-west curve at this location back in 2010 (along with other changes), corporate amnesia caused this to be omitted from the current work."

Broadview Avenue Reconstruction Summer 2018 (Updated August 9, 2018)

This summer, the TTC will rebuild the special work at the intersections of Broadview with Dundas and with Gerrard, as well as replacing the tangent track between these two locations. Minor repairs …

stevemunro.ca

 

[nottoban]

But yet Metrolinx and the Provincial government is more than happy to buy more of that deficient product known as the Citadis Spirit, in large part because they are "providing local jobs" (the Brampton assembly line).

If Metrolinx actually did their jobs properly, they would've be throwing red flags all over before they were put in place for the Hurontario Line but that ship has long sailed. So now Ottawa, FInch West, Hurontario, and even Hamilton will be stuck using problematic vehicles all because no one wants to do their job in forcing Alstom to make changes.

Hamilton can still have their vehicle's changed, but Metrolinx seemingly has no interest in doing so.

The choice of Citadis IIRC was because there was some question as to whether Bombardier could deliver even the vehicles for the Crosstown on time (this was at the time when all the new streetcars were getting sent back due to defects), and the vehicles contract required Bombardier to pay Metrolinx $500,000 per day for every day past the in-service date vehicles were not available to operate on the line, but Metrolinx had to pay Crosslinx $1,000,000 per day for every day vehicles were not available. The Citadis order was simply additional quantities from the Ottawa order (as evidenced by the fact that all the line 6 vehicles originally had the O Train door chime)

 

[Amare]

The choice of Citadis IIRC was because there was some question as to whether Bombardier could deliver even the vehicles for the Crosstown on time (this was at the time when all the new streetcars were getting sent back due to defects), and the vehicles contract required Bombardier to pay Metrolinx $500,000 per day for every day past the in-service date vehicles were not available to operate on the line, but Metrolinx had to pay Crosslinx $1,000,000 per day for every day vehicles were not available. The Citadis order was simply additional quantities from the Ottawa order (as evidenced by the fact that all the line 6 vehicles originally had the O Train door chime)

Yes, but that's in the past and we cant change that.

What can be changed is the future, we're talking about the facts of what we know about the Citadis today. We have pure and concrete evidence that the Citadis is deficient in varying ways, and Metrolinx and the province are tuning a blind eye and acting like there are no issues. To the point that they are perfectly content with procuring more of them for Hamilton.

Why would Alstom be incentivized to fix the issues, when the government is handing them more money and they dont have to do a lick of anything to fix the issues.

 

[robmausser]

After riding line 5 today. I can say for certain that the Citadis Spirits are garbage. It was a mistake for Metrolinx to switch from the Flexity's to to Spirits. The Flexitys have better acceleration, are so smooth to ride. I remember riding line 6 with it constantly vibrating like the wheels were disintegrating underneath me.

Its more than they are garbage, which they are. They are the wrong vehicle for the job. They were a Frankenstein LRT on steroids for what should have been a Metro line in Ottawa. Rather than start over, MX convinced Alstom to make basically an "LRT worthy of a metro line" Frankentrain. Which failed to do its job properly, but that was it's intent.

Do you know how idiotic it is to then take a train designed for that task and put it on effectively a streetcar route? With sharp turns that the train struggles to traverse, overhead that doesn't provide enough voltage for the train, and red lights and stops every 100 feet that a heavy train struggles to speed up and slow down from?

Literally the worst tool for the job.

Not to mention that the Finch line was delayed anyways, and had we just waited for the Flexities from Bombardier they would have technically arrived on time.