Toronto Eglinton Line 5 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[Johnny Au]

I rode the Eglinton Crosstown LRT earlier today from Kennedy to Mount Dennis (and then back to Eglinton). Took 58 1/2 minutes end to end which is decent all things considered. Even the surface portion ran better than the Finch West LRT, though they seriously need to scrap the Hakimi Lebovic stop! I wrote some more detailed thoughts on my blog, but will include a few photos here.

Welcome Eglinton Crosstown LRT!

A blog about cycling and political advocacy based in Toronto, Canada. (#BikeTO)

www.twowheeledpolitics.ca

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I use Freedom and can confirm this unfortunately.

I also use Freedom and there's no cellular data in the tunnels and even the stations for me.

 

[Westey]

Like this: I made this crude knock-up 12 years ago and I believe it's posted somewhere in this endless thread. I was not listened to as usual

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I was after a south side alignment back in those days. Even a separate "tunnel" through the embankment so it wouldn't take away from lanes on Eglinton going under the CP line. I then wanted the Science Centre station built on the SW corner of Eglinton/Don Mills to reduce construction disturbance. Even after construction started (maybe 2014) I thought the best option was to tear up the started portal/launch shaft and move things south - but then Kathleen Wynne won that election and the median alignment was not to be changed.

Off the top of my head, I'd put this bridge cost at about $50M, maybe another $150M in earthworks and traffic management. Now that the LRT is in service, it would probably require a "push-box" similar to Hurontario LRT under QEW - basically an overgrown culvert built to the south of Eglinton and then 1 weekend pushed under Eglinton and the LRT tracks. Without raising Eglinton (which you couldn't do much anyways because of the CP tracks), Leslie would be lowered about 7m - potentially putting it below flood levels.

It doesn't look like a great solution, but it's hard to find a better one. I thought maybe realigning Leslie to go under the CP rail and connecting to the existing overpass just east of the tracks, but then it's too close to Don Mills to allow the traffic to spread-out over all the Eglinton EB lanes. Or you just leave it for now, since this will likely not be any worse than getting through DVP, or through Vic Park and Pharmacy. So maybe you wait and then shut down the LRT and just rebuild this entire 8 km stretch. Chalk it up to live-and-learn.

 

[jordanmkasla2009]

Honestly, my only gripe today was that the stations were COLD. The platform level and the concourses. Like am I unreasonable for expecting enclosed underground transit stations to be heated/temperature controlled? A big advantage of subways and underground transit is that it’s warm and comfortable to wait for.

I was freezing today unless I was actually in the train (and even then, the doors opening on the surface section made it cold again).

the tunnels themselves will warm up over time. The fact that they are cold now means they'll be a relief in the hot summer months. But the downside of them being so deep is that once they do warm up they'll hold that heat for a long time.

 

[T3G]

Although there are some things that need fixing, I was pleasantly surprised by what I encountered today. The professional kvetchers that were salivating at the thought of this line being an abject failure and condemning the LRT experiment to history must be devastated.

Some thoughts, in no order of importance:

-unlike the turtlebahn that was Finch West, this line absolutely flew when given the opportunity to, including on the surface section - the distance between Sloane and O'Connor, and Golden Mile and Birchmount, stood out to me in particular, it almost felt like riding a tram in Europe. That is, until we hit the lights. If we can get some signal priority going, we'll be in fine form.

-The 60 km/h speed limit in the tunnel section was barely a factor. It took in the neighbourhood of 15 minutes to get from Weston to Yonge, which is very good, and basically the same amount of time it takes the 2 to get from Keele to Bloor-Yonge.

-some of the dwell times, both above ground and underground, seemed excessive. Granted, there were a lot of people, but on one trip I stood in the front and watched in the driver's cab and could see on the cameras that there were no people left milling around, but still the doors didn't close. Even when the green light was given. This is unfortunate and is fairly reminiscent of opening day for line 6. The delayed reaction time for the doors opening, while nothing new (the downtown Flexity cars and TR trains also have this problem), was also unfortunate.

-there is a ridiculous amount of noise pollution at the terminals and inside the trains. You hear more pointless bullshit in the span of 30 seconds on this line than you do in a full year on line 2. It was bad enough on the 6, but it's so much worse on this line, now that some goon decided we need a) sensor triggered warnings to stay back from the yellow line, set off every time someone steps on the yellow line, announcements about the doors closing AFTER THE FUCKING DOORS HAVE CLOSED, and PSAs to sit or hold on while the train is in motion, after every goddamn stop. And the announcements about standing back from the yellow line don't have any kind of memory, so while people were congregating around the trains at the terminals, they were being set off every few seconds. How many times can you be told bilingually by the world's least pleasant TTS system to stay back from the yellow line before you need to be committed to an asylum?

-related to the above point, the speakers on the trains were all set brutally loud, so a) unless you have industrial grade noise cancelling headphones, there's no hope of being able to tune them out; plus, they were so loud the sound quality was extremely fuzzy. Unfortunately a common syndrome on Metrolinx vehicles, the double deckers are a full on assault on the ears.

-The underground stations all looked like someone copied and pasted a design. It's an okay looking one, but when every station looks so utterly nondescript... it's too bad we don't have enough pride in our public works projects to try to beautify them.

-The next train departure boards seemed to correspond to reality only incidentally. There were loads of instances where either a train approaching suddenly vanished from the board and now we're waiting for the next one, or a train not shown on the board appearing out of nowhere. Very hard to anticipate headway reliability when you have no real notion of when the next train is coming, and the headway levels today did not really seem to correspond to the level of demand there existed (most trains seemed to come every 8-10 minutes, which might suffice on a regular Sunday, but certainly not on a showcase day like today).

-the single doorways at the front and rear of every car seem unfortunate, they'll probably be a real chokepoint. Now granted, everyone and their dog was out today and had no sense of urgency in boarding, so it may be better in rush hour when at least some commuters are moving meaningfully and with purpose, but I have no idea why, considering there are no sharp turns like on the downtown network, they carried over this design. If every door was a double it would basically cut the loading time in half?

Still, despite all these concerns, the line seems fairly well done for the most part. It will definitely be transformational for crosstown travel and the ride comfort and capacity will be so much better than the buses that it replaced, or the BRTs that some of the anti-LRT crowd wants to see built in place of LRT instead. I'd give the project a 7/10, and hope that they can iron out some of these kinks in the coming months.

 

[EllaW]

the tunnels themselves will warm up over time. The fact that they are cold now means they'll be a relief in the hot summer months. But the downside of them being so deep is that once they do warm up they'll hold that heat for a long time.

Why would they warm up over time? From people being inside of them?

 

[nfitz]

Nah, they should build a diverging diamond-style intersection. All turning traffic diverted to the north, all traffic staying on Eglinton staying on the south side of the tracks. There would still be a pedestrian crossing over the tracks, however.

That's a very interesting thought! I'd suggested moving the turning lanes to the north, but that would have required upgrades at the tunnel. I think this is an even better idea! Does anyone see a major flaw in this suggestion? You'd have to rejig the Mike Palmateer intersection somehow.

There were approx. 115k riders on the Eglinton corridor in 2019 plus I added a conservative 10% transfers onto the Eglinton Line on all north-south routes for an additional 30k riders. This total is 145,500 daily passengers in 2019. Crude math for those numbers gives us around 11-13,000 pphd traveling in each direction at morning peak hour.

Wouldn't that be 11 to 13,000 people per direction over the entire line, rather than at a particulr point, which is what the design is for. I believe the peak in the slightly earlier EA was just under 5,000 at any point. I'd think you'd at leat have to divde your number by two, and even then, I wonder about the math.

A few year agos when we discussed this, I added up the hourly capacity at AM peak eastbound to Eglinton (which is where they estimated the peak demand was), and it was no where near 10,000 an hour. Significantly less than 5,000 if I remember correctly. Even 5,000 would represent represent almost 100 buses an hour - one every 36 seconds.

I don't think there was close to 100 buses an hour at any point in one direction, even pre-Covid. So (far?) less than 5,000 pphpd at any point.

I'm guessing there's an assumption issue. Any reason to not just add up the old capacity, and multiply it by a factor for additional transfers and riders?

I use Freedom and can confirm this unfortunately.

Odd - Freedom works fine on the new section of mobile along Danforth.

 

[T3G]

Another odd thing is the non-cab ends of the LRV's have windshield wipers, and it looked like they have wiped recently

I assume this is for reverse moves in the yard when it's raining. Prague has this exact set up for this exact reason.

 

[Bordercollie]

I wonder how many of the people that trot out this bullshit argument actually use the line they are condemning for being built as the wrong form of transit?

I have no idea how anyone can look at the overcrowded, traffic logged buses that were running on Eglinton and think that those were preferable to a vehicle that has infinitely higher capacity and its own lanes to boot, just because it's not the proper form of transit, whatever the hell that means. Thank Christ we don't have people like you making decisions on what gets built.

What's the end to end travel times?

 

[jordanmkasla2009]

Why would they warm up over time? From people being inside of them?

Heating from train brakes, the AC, the compression of air as the trains move, the heat loss from when train doors open in the winter, and heat loss from various electrical systems on the train and radiant body heat from passengers will all warm up the tunnels. Most of that heat will be absorbed into the soil/clay/rock surrounding the tunnel and station boxes. Once that reaches it's thermal capacity the ambient temperature will rise. On the deep tube lines on the London Underground, the clay the tunnels were bored into has absorbed so much heat that it now serves as an insulator year round to the point the tunnels can reach temperatures that are even hotter than the outside air (during the heatwave in 2006 some parts of the Underground were measuring at 47 C. Luckily for us, the tunnels were built with more extensive ventilation systems than those tube stations in London so when the temperatures do rise, it'll be easier to lower, but it is a problem that exists with deep tunnels

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

Wouldn't that be 11 to 13,000 people per direction over the entire line, rather than at a particulr point, which is what the design is for. I believe the peak in the slightly earlier EA was just under 5,000 at any point. I'd think you'd at leat have to divde your number by two, and even then, I wonder about the math.

A few year agos when we discussed this, I added up the hourly capacity at AM peak eastbound to Eglinton (which is where they estimated the peak demand was), and it was no where near 10,000 an hour. Significantly less than 5,000 if I remember correctly. Even 5,000 would represent represent almost 100 buses an hour - one every 36 seconds.

I don't think there was close to 100 buses an hour at any point in one direction, even pre-Covid. So (far?) less than 5,000 pphpd at any point.

I'm guessing there's an assumption issue. Any reason to not just add up the old capacity, and multiply it by a factor for additional transfers and riders?

Quick note, I realized I copied over 34 Eglinton East ridership to 32 Eglinton West, so I revised the post.

Revised: "There were approx. 133k riders on the Eglinton corridor in 2019 plus I added a conservative 10% transfers onto the Eglinton Line on all north-south routes for an additional 30k riders. This total is 164,000 daily passengers in 2019. Crude math for those numbers gives us around 12-15,000 pphd traveling in each direction at morning peak hour."

I calculated PPHD as (daily ridership * 15% peak hour rides) * 60% peak hour direction. To your point, yes it should be considered as quick math showing the directional flow of passengers rather than what peak passenger demand should be expected at Yonge-Eglinton station. People will be alighting at Mt Pleasant, Leaside, Avenue, etc. before reaching Yonge (and I suspect in practice, many travel patterns will shift towards Cedarvale). As for why not do a more proper analysis, well I wrote up that post in 5 minutes.

From the 2012 study, I pulled the relevant graphs showing loading profiles and capacity for reference for what they were forecasting.

 

[dullturtle06]

How can you have a flyover for Leslie when you have CP Bridge in the way??

You need to be 35 feet above the CP bridge to the underside of the flyover and what would the grade be to get the flyover back to grade for Don Mills station??

The best option is to tunnel under that intersection. The don bridge is at a lower elevation than the intersection. A nice cut and cover to the Eglinton West IBM underpass would solve the issue. You can even add platforms to keep the stop there.

 

[drum118]

The best option is to tunnel under that intersection. The don bridge is at a lower elevation than the intersection. A nice cut and cover to the Eglinton West IBM underpass would solve the issue. You can even add platforms to keep the stop there.View attachment 714044

To tunnel the line as you noted, how long to you figure the line be out of service from Laird to Don Mills??

How do you plan on providing service east of Laird and at the Laird station???

Who is going to pay for it and how much??

 

[APTA-2048]

Holy crap. Both trains I rode between Oakwood and Eglinton slammed into emergency while going full speed in the tunnel. We ended up going half speed the rest of the way to Mount Dennis the first time. The second time we are currently waiting at Chaplin. Edit: now we’re going slow again between stations and I hear a nasty wheel flat I didn’t notice before.

No explanation the first time. Second time they said technical issue.

So a TTC op has explained this may have been triggered by the GIDS. But I am unsure if this was the case the first time it happened as we were quite past Oakwood when it happened.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Lets revisit that after the hype has died down. Don't forget many of today's riders are foamers

or just people who are riding because it's free. At both Kebedy and Mount Denis today, I saw people staying on the train to go back the other way, well, the minority of people were gettig off the train.

 

[Admiral Beez]

What’s with the French on every announcement? Does the Montreal subway run English on every stop?