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Finch West Line 6 LRT

Hi folks, long term lurker of the forums here. Don't want to drive this further off-topic than needed but If I might give my two cents I feel that this discussion about whether or not Toronto is a "world-class" city is pretty crazy to have in 2026. I find it strange that we as Torontonians are so quick to dismiss our strengths and highlight our supposed shortcomings compared to NY/London/Tokyo, etc.

We're the largest city in the 10th largest economy in the world, we're the home of the 10th largest stock exchange in the world and some of the world's foremost financial services companies. We're home to some of the largest gold miners on the planet as some of you have pointed out. Culturally, we're (Southern Ontario) home to some of the most listened to musicians on the planet (Drake, The Weeknd, Justin Bieber, Shawn Mendes). Even Pearson (which is partially in Toronto), is a major hub for international flights into North America. Yeah, we're not #1 for everything but we're certainly not some podunk backwater, why are we so afraid of calling ourselves a big important city? I think the tension is that we are a large city but our infrastructure hasn't kept up like other similarly large cities.

Regardless of Toronto's global stature, our rapid transit network is clearly underbuilt. Just compare us to the second and third largest cities in our country. The Toronto CMA is ~7.1mm people vs 4.6mm for Montreal CMA and 3.1mm in Vancouver CMA. Including Hamilton, we're literally the same size as MTL + VAN. Shouldn't we have a rapid transit system commensurate with our significantly larger population?

Back on topic, I think Line 6 is fine as local transit, given that it's not a key corridor for cross-city travel. I'm just hoping we stop using Toronto not being a "world class" city as an excuse to not carry out the expensive but necessary expansion of our infrastructure. (Not saying any of you are opposed to expansion, I just find it strange that so many people take umbrage to classifying Toronto has a "global" or "world class" city).
 
Not to defend Metrolinx but Isn't Metrolinx just executing a plan/mandate? I always thought that that was their role; Project management. If you tell them to build a rail transit service between point A and point B and to put X number of stops, then that's what they will.do. Someone has to tell them.

In the case of FWLRT that's what they did. They developed a plan, they went out and found someone to build it, they revised a plan and followed up to ensure execution and accountability, and reported on the execution of the plan to the stakeholders. They're project managers (Project management 101) and that's what project managers do. If you give project managers a business requirement that makes no sense or a product or service that client's (in this the public) doesn't want, its not the project managers role to say: "No we wont do it" or "it doesnt serve the public well". Its the politicians who tell Project managers , in this case Metrolinx, what to build.

I found it frustrating when a media outlet recently polled the public about who they blamed for FWLTR failures and they only gave the options of TTC (the operators) and Metrolinx (the project manager). once again, this shows how totally clueless the people in the media are.
 
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torontolover100 said:
I'm just hoping we stop using Toronto not being a "world class" city as an excuse to not carry out the expensive but necessary expansion of our infrastructure.
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Thank you. I am not really sure what relevance this debate has. Supposing it is a world class city, or it is not, does not change really anything about what is being discussed. Unless one of you want to be the one who says, "I used to think Line 6 should be improved, but now that I'm convinced Toronto isn't a world class city, Line 6 doesn't need any improvements and is fine the way it is now!" or vice versa. For the sake of killing this discussion I am going to withhold my opinion on this

Burnt creek said:
Not to defend Metrolinx but Isn't Metrolinx just executing a plan/mandate? I always thought that that was their role; Project management. If you tell them to build a rail transit service between point A and point B and to put X number of stops, then that's what they will.do. Someone has to tell them.
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Yep. Metrolinx isn't independent. I suppose it is somewhat on paper, but it is absolutely first and foremost beholden to the political stakeholders before it is beholden to good planning, good finance management, etc. It will never make good planning and financial decisions so long as they dance to the beat of whoever's in charge of Queen's Park.

I don't think anyone can or should knock on MX for the plan that this is a median-running tram, or how many stops there are, or whatever is promised by the politicians that they need to figure out.

That being said, they have shown themselves to be rather incapable of engineering these plans into blueprints, keeping costs low, and learning best practices from abroad. I don't think the TTC is any more intelligent as they clearly are incapable in other areas and have had significant failures in the few construction projects they still have, but only that they had more experience in delivering projects compared to MX when all the new projects were dumped on them. Meanwhile, most of those TTC projects are well into the past, in a different Toronto that cannot be easily replicated in cost and speed as it can today. I think those who argue, "The TTC needs to be put back in charge, MX is clearly a failure." would not be happy at the end of the first construction project led back by the TTC.
 
lastcommodore said:
"I used to think Line 6 should be improved, but now that I'm convinced Toronto isn't a world class city, Line 6 doesn't need any improvements and is fine the way it is now!"
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I have heard something tantamount to that several times on UT over the last few months. It's like going to the Vatican (Urban Toronto) to espouse the benefits of Atheism (transit hating NIMBYism).

torontolover100 said:
(Not saying any of you are opposed to expansion, I just find it strange that so many people take umbrage to classifying Toronto has a "global" or "world class" city).
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^Agreed. Also I'm glad Line 6 was built, even though I have been very vocal about its faults, simply because Toronto has a habit of procrastinating on transit. That Line 6 exists is a blessing. Even though it may suck right now, it's better than twiddling thumbs for the better part of 50 years like with the downtown relief line. Building it and failing, or building it and slowly learning to make it better, either way you learn from failures, hopefully to never repeat them.
 
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Allandale25 said:
How does the Waterloo LRT deal with cross street/intersection snow?

View attachment 709178
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Siemens Mobility Canada (which in 2021 purchased RailTerm, the rail maintenance contractor for ION) has a few highrail-equipped plow trucks that run down the on-street portion and a TrackMobile with a large thick steel plate that can bash out windrows along the entire length of the line if needed. While the switches on the embedded track sections use the same switch heating technology as Line 6, the same switch issues don't exist during bad weather as the maintenance contractor also cleans them as part of the snow clearing. Keolis Grand River also has standby operators available to run trains overnight. The requirements for the ION system operator and maintainer were clearly laid out in the contract, including the need to have snow clearing equipment and the ability to run storm trains. If those requirements weren't included in the contract with Mosaic then blame for the inability to properly clear snow would lay at the feet of Metrolinx.
 
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nfitz said:
How is this different to GO Transit service, other than TTC being the operator, instead of Alstom?
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It isn't different. GO transit, just like the TTC, are operators of the service. Metrolinx manages the projects. OK (now that I think about it) i recall now that it does say the word: " Metrolinx" on the GO Trains which could suggest they are operators of the GO service. A city bus driver or Subway operator is employed by the TTC but who employs or hires the GO Train operating staff? If it is Metrolinx then that make Metrolinx the operators of the GO train. I don't know but I do recall that Metrolinx was created to manage transit projects.
 
Mosaic and Metrolinx probably consulted the TTC on purchasing snow removal equipment. The TTC most likely told them they don’t need to as they operate streetcars as is in snowy conditions.

Or Mosaic and Metrolinx assumed they wouldn’t need to purchase snow removal equipment based on observing that the TTC doesn’t plough their ROWs.

They should consider one of these now:


How others operate trams in snowy conditions:



My own opinion, we probably should’ve also went with the Helsinki Skoda/Transtech Artic Tram. Just boost the air conditioning unit to match our hot humid summers.
 
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yrt+viva=1system said:
Mosaic and Metrolinx probably consulted the TTC on purchasing snow removal equipment. The TTC most likely told them they don’t need to as they operate streetcars as is in snowy conditions.

Or Mosaic and Metrolinx assumed they wouldn’t need to purchase snow removal equipment based on observing that the TTC doesn’t plough their ROWs.

They should consider one of these now:


How others operate trams in snowy conditions:



My own opinion, we probably should’ve also went with the Helsinki Skoda/Transtech Artic Tram. Just boost the air conditioning unit to match our hot humid summers.
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There is a way to calculate if the heat from the electric heater can melt the snow. I don't think they thought of that.
 
drum118 said:

Finch LRT uses same switches as Ottawa's plagued transit line​

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Of course it does. Metorlinx and its entire teams are incapable of even a google search. Fire them all. And then beef up the heaters, ensure there is snow removal at intersections and install priority lights to make this thing move. Else rip it out and put buses down the centre like on Highway 7 which could have been delivered 3 years ago for less than 1/3 of the cost of this scam
 
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