Toronto Sugar Wharf Condominiums (Phase 2) | 283.6m | 85s | Menkes | a—A

It'll look similar to the Harbour Plaza PATH connection under the Gardiner, squeezing right under the highway. It's going to be a very long bridge - ~250m long.

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Fritter said:
RENX article

renx.ca

Menkes, partners move ahead with Sugar Wharf Phase II prep

Progress continues at Sugar Wharf, an 11-acre mixed-use development on Queens Quay East in downtown Toronto, although the latest addition is only temporary.
renx.ca renx.ca
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Ughh I hate to see the plan proceed as is; it's abysmal, lacklustre, and soulless.

Till this day I still hate massive "master-planned" communities, but if it were an option i'd rather have Pinnacle develop this prime site because Menkes isnt even trying to do anything that's even slightly innovative here.
 
Amare said:
Ughh I hate to see the plan proceed as is; it's abysmal, lacklustre, and soulless.

Till this day I still hate massive "master-planned" communities, but if it were an option i'd rather have Pinnacle develop this prime site because Menkes isnt even trying to do anything that's even slightly innovative here.
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I'd rather someone else got their hands on all of this land and went for something other than a wall of soulless, bland condos.
 
innsertnamehere said:
It'll look similar to the Harbour Plaza PATH connection under the Gardiner, squeezing right under the highway. It's going to be a very long bridge - ~250m long.

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That makes sense, but based on the number of long on and off ramps at the intersection of Yonge and Lake Shore, it doesn't seem like there's enough clearance for a bridge like this until about halfway between Freeland and Cooper Streets.
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Do you think they'll build it out that long? Seems like an awfully long hallway of nothing, by my estimate it'll be nearly 400m.

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ComptoirGeneral said:
That makes sense, but based on the number of long on and off ramps at the intersection of Yonge and Lake Shore, it doesn't seem like there's enough clearance for a bridge like this until about halfway between Freeland and Cooper Streets.
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Do you think they'll build it out that long? Seems like an awfully long hallway of nothing, by my estimate it'll be nearly 400m.

View attachment 700218View attachment 700220
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There's knockout panels and a space provisioned for PATH through Prestige (Phase 1 of Pinnacle's development), which would then cross over Freeland St to connect to Menkes insipidly planned Phase 2 buildings.

So it wouldn't be taking the route you highlighted above.
 
cogito ergo said:
One Yonge campus will be connected to PATH first. Also, the alignment of Lakeshore "ramp" will change, as far as I know, will turn into a regular straight angle right turn from Yonge under the Gardiner, allowing for more open wedge space instead
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Yes, the Bay on ramp is being removed and the Jarvis off ramp will end at Yonge. Or that used to be the plan.
 
Is there a way we can put presssure on this firm? I don’t know Flood them with online criticism and backlash so they rethink producing the most mundane and mediocre architecture in this city? When is it gonna end with this people? Why developers keep hiring them to do this trash work? There’s no way to justify this level of mediocrity at this massive scale and prominence in our skyline. They don’t even try to do decent work anymore. Everyone in my class was producing better work in first year of architecture school.
 
Per minutes from Waterfront Design Review, they are vehemently AGAINST +15 type bridges...they want animated streets. So that concerns me that they will not end up connecting the PATH across Lakeshore from the Esplanade. I don't think they'll go under the active rail lines, Lakeshore Blvd and the elevated Gardiner....likely far too complicated and costly.

Those are minutes for schematic review of Sugar Wharf Phase 2. They had similar comments for 1 Yonge Phase 3.
 
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Diablo1983 said:
Per minutes from Waterfront Design Review, they are vehemently AGAINST +15 type bridges...they want animated streets. So that concerns me that they will not end up connecting the PATH across Lakeshore from the Esplanade. I don't think they'll go under the active rail lines, Lakeshore Blvd and the elevated Gardiner....likely far too complicated and costly.

Those are minutes for schematic review of Sugar Wharf Phase 2. They had similar comments for 1 Yonge Phase 3.
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I feel like the use of +15 bridges for the PATH specifically wouldn't make an impact on having animated streets in the neighbourhood. It's not like areas which currently have the PATH suffer from dead surface streets. The use case of the PATH and the city street is quite different IMO.

Also, yes, I don't think they'll connect anything south of the tracks to the PATH from the upcoming connection that goes from CIBC II to Backstage condos. There really doesn't seem to be the space, unless they dig deep enough to go under the rail line, Lakeshore, and Gardiner. They could go up, but it would be a massive jump in elevation as well. I do have to wonder what the point of the connection from CIBC II to Backstage is considering there isn't really anywhere for the PATH to go from there. Future proofing I guess.

Based on what everyone's said, it seems the PATH will go from CIBC I > One Yonge > Sugar Wharf
 
DSCToronto said:
I looked it up and here is the Transportation Master Plan

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From: https://www.waterfrontoronto.ca/sit...ecinct---pic-summary-report-final-low-res.pdf
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I wonder how this plan has shifted since it's almost ten years old now. Sugar Wharf Phase One is situated along Dawes Street, which would become an extension of Harbour according to this diagram. Would they change the existing building addresses to accommodate this? I know there is precedent in Toronto for extending major streets to absorb smaller streets, I'm just not sure how it works in practice.

I'm also curious to see how this would impact the current Loblaws site. There is no development application there at the moment, but the Harbour Street extension would cut right through the property to connect to Lower Jarvis. If the city wanted to implement this plan, would they use eminent domain to push the road through or would they have to wait until the owner is willing to sell or redevelop the site?
 
ComptoirGeneral said:
I wonder how this plan has shifted since it's almost ten years old now. Sugar Wharf Phase One is situated along Dawes Street, which would become an extension of Harbour according to this diagram. Would they change the existing building addresses to accommodate this? I know there is precedent in Toronto for extending major streets to absorb smaller streets, I'm just not sure how it works in practice.

I'm also curious to see how this would impact the current Loblaws site. There is no development application there at the moment, but the Harbour Street extension would cut right through the property to connect to Lower Jarvis. If the city wanted to implement this plan, would they use eminent domain to push the road through or would they have to wait until the owner is willing to sell or redevelop the site?
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I think the plan is still 'active' - though some parts are not likely to happen for decades - e.g. bringing Church Street under he rail berm. (Which i personally doubt any of us will be alive to see!) There is much more chance of the Loblaws site being redeveloped and when that happens I bet the City will demand that a new street be carved out - exactly as they did with the new streets that run east from Yonge (Pinnacle site and LCBO site). As the Loblaws block is the final block in this probable street I doubt the City would spend time/money trying to expropriate as the street could end one street west of Lower Jarvis for many years and THEN be pushed through as part of a new Zoning.
 
ComptoirGeneral said:
I wonder how this plan has shifted since it's almost ten years old now. Sugar Wharf Phase One is situated along Dawes Street, which would become an extension of Harbour according to this diagram. Would they change the existing building addresses to accommodate this? I know there is precedent in Toronto for extending major streets to absorb smaller streets, I'm just not sure how it works in practice.

I'm also curious to see how this would impact the current Loblaws site. There is no development application there at the moment, but the Harbour Street extension would cut right through the property to connect to Lower Jarvis. If the city wanted to implement this plan, would they use eminent domain to push the road through or would they have to wait until the owner is willing to sell or redevelop the site?
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I don't think the city wants another through street - enough people use Queens Quay as a through street when the Gardiner and Lakeshore back up...would be a terrible idea to open up another tight street near a school that can be used to uselessly try to avoid traffic. I don't see it going all the way to Jarvis even when (because it's a matter of when, not if) that site gets redeveloped.

I was thinking about this site the other day - my guess is Redpath would/already has opposed to any residential being on the south part of the lot (noise/vibrations) so that would have to be office/commercial with towers on the north side along Lakeshore being residential.
 
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