Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[smallspy]

Thanks for the all the detail.
Is your understanding that the two software systems are not connecting with each other via an API? I would assume they need to communicate with each other? This sounds equal parts easily solvable and highly complex lol, any software engineers care to chime in?

My knowledge at this level of detail is limited, but I would assume that the communication would be primarily one-way, and so therefore an API seems unnecessary. It strikes me that the scheduling computer just needs to tell the signal system to "GO", it doesn't need to know what state it is in to send that command. And in fact, watching the signal system at the termini would agree with this - the signal system will hold a train until the scheduling system tells it to. But if there is a condition that is more restrictive - say, another train is crossing over in front of the train scheduled to leave - the signal system will not allow that train to leave until the restriction is removed.

But again, that's assuming that there is a tie-in to the TTC's own central scheduling computer. There may not be at all - the lines may handle their own scheduling internally.

FWIW I've heard Finch is completely finished but Metrolinx/TTC priority is solely on Eglinton and as such no drivers have been trained for Finch...make of that what you will.

As I've written earlier, TTC staff have not been given full access to the facilities there. That includes the carhouse, central control, stations, etc. Until that happens, they can not train the operators - and after that, then start running the simulated service.

Nothing is more anxiety inducing in the world of Toronto transit than thinking about the fact that we had started construction on a subway along Eglinton, cancelled it, switched gears, and opted to construct a streetcar instead of restarting subway construction.

What world do you live in that you think anyone actually cares about that?

You know what is actually anxiety-inducing? Making sure that there is enough transit on the system to be able to get to work or to get home. Or to visit my family.

Dan

 

[Ozman]

...

Except that the migration point between the two systems is not the problem. In fact, it's worked flawlessly since the last upgrade in August/September.

Dan

Thank you for sharing both your expertise and insights gleaned from your "inside" contacts Dan. Are you able to share what the problem is with the signal system if it's not the migration point?

Also, I had understood that every second eastbound train would short turn at Laird using the storage track immediately east of Laird Station. Would this maneuver be completely controlled by ATC? (i.e. the operator wouldn't need to do anything except move from the cab at one end to the cab at the other end of the train).

Finally, based on your knowledge, experience and "gut feeling", what percentage chance do you think Line 5 has of opening to the public on or before, (say) Sept. 1, 2025?

 

[smallspy]

Also, I had understood that every second eastbound train would short turn at Laird using the storage track immediately east of Laird Station. Would this maneuver be completely controlled by ATC? (i.e. the operator wouldn't need to do anything except move from the cab at one end to the cab at the other end of the train).

The system has been built and tested for this, and it is scheduled to be instituted at some nebulous later date once ridership has matured. But it is not planned to happen for day 1.

My understanding is that the system is capable of performing that maneuver completely free of human intervention, yes. Mind you, the signal systems on the B-D and the YUS are also capable of automatic routing too, although in the case of the B-D it does require that control tag a train in a particular manner in order to achieve the automated process. (In fact, they do this every day with the trains that run back to the yard out-of-service from Kennedy.)

Dan

 

[jordanmkasla2009]

The signal system being used on the Crosstown is a Bombardier (now Alstom) product called Cityflo 650 on the tunneled sections, and (IIRC) Cityflo 350 on the surface portion. It's an off-the-shelf product that has been used in many, many different cities on many, many different lines, although the 650 - the fully automated one providing ATC/ATO - frequently on unmanned "people mover" type of systems. But this is by no means it's first transit application, not by a long shot.

As pointed out, Finch West is using a version of Hitachi's (formerly Thales) Seltrac product. It's a totally different system, although it is functionally identical to the Cityflo 350 product - and nothing at all like the version of Seltrac formerly used on the Scarborough RT.

Because the two systems are completely independent from the other, there should be no possibility of any failure in one propagating to the other. I say should, as I don't know how the scheduling functions have been integrated into the two systems. If they are centrally controlled - like the existing subway lines - than there remains a potential common failure mode there.


Except that the migration point between the two systems is not the problem. In fact, it's worked flawlessly since the last upgrade in August/September.

Dan

It’s just Cityflo 650 CBTC throughout the whole line from what I read. The changeover is just selecting which level of control is available to use as the underground section has both ATO and ATP elements available while the surface section only has the ATP equipment.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Coming soon?

When will we expect to see an announcement, of an announcement, of an announcement, of an announcement, of an announcement of the opening of the Line 5 Crosstown LRT?

This is along the future 73B Royal York bus route terminating at the Mount Dennis Station. These following images are along Emmett Avenue. Since Line 5 is not yet opened, the 73B Royal York bus will not service those stops... yet, allegedly.

 

[W. K. Lis]

The 73B Royal York bus route is show here, to the left. Routes still subject to change. Any other bus routes have new bus stops put up?

 

[Toronto1834]

The 73B Royal York bus route is show here, to the left. Routes still subject to change. Any other bus routes have new bus stops put up?

View attachment 629367

Yes. I was out in Don Mills. They have poured new bus pads and installed new stop poles to align with the future routing of 162 to provide two-way service southwest of Don Mills and Lawrence where only one-way service currently exists.

 

[marko16]

Yes. I was out in Don Mills. They have poured new bus pads and installed new stop poles to align with the future routing of 162 to provide two-way service southwest of Don Mills and Lawrence where only one-way service currently exists.

Ah yes, the infamous 162 Private-Chauffeur...

 

[smallspy]

It’s just Cityflo 650 CBTC throughout the whole line from what I read. The changeover is just selecting which level of control is available to use as the underground section has both ATO and ATP elements available while the surface section only has the ATP equipment.

My understanding is that it is not, as the surface section has some features that are not designed to be integrated with the Cityflo 650 system.

Not that it really matters to the equipment or the people operating it.

Dan

 

[Kyle Campbell]

This must be a strong candidate the longest project in North American transit history

Since the crosstown started, the ETS Valley Line, O-train Lines 1,2 and 4, the REM, LA's K Line, and Honolulu's Skyline have all been designed, built, and opened.

 

[MegaSea]

This must be a strong candidate the longest project in North American transit history

Since the crosstown started, the ETS Valley Line, O-train Lines 1,2 and 4, the REM, LA's K Line, and Honolulu's Skyline have all been designed, built, and opened.

Blame for TTC
Chinese company can finished and open to public 20 new subway lines in 1year.

 

[Tuscani01]

Blame for TTC
Chinese company can finished and open to public 20 new subway lines in 1year.

Why blame the TTC when they aren’t the ones planning or building this?

 

[Amare]

First off, welcome to UT.

Blame for TTC

Secondly, what does the TTC have to do with both Metrolinx' and Crosslinx' ineptitude?

Chinese company can finished and open to public 20 new subway lines in 1year.

Third, that's the price they pay for having barely any labour standards, disregard for construction safety, a 1 party rule system which controls virtually everything, etc..

 

[Northern Light]

This is along the future 73B Royal York bus route terminating at the Mount Dennis Station. These following images are along Emmett Avenue. Since Line 5 is not yet opened, the 73B Royal York bus will not service those stops... yet, allegedly.
View attachment 629365

Hold on........... if no one else is gonna ask, I will...........

Why on earth are there 'Victorian" style heritage pedestrian lights in this area, which doesn't appear to have an even vague relationship to the period in question?

 

[bearcat]

Hold on........... if not one else is gonna ask, I will...........

Why on earth are there 'Victorian" style heritage pedestrian lights in this area, which doesn't appear to have an even vague relationship to the period in question?

Probably related to the metal plaques on the brick parts of the low fence behind them, they say "Charlton Settlement". There is also this at the other end of Verona Avenue: https://maps.app.goo.gl/tqnvRQL2nM24T6MH6?g_st=ac
I guess it's meant to be a "grand entrance" to the Charlton Settlement Subdivision north of there, where there is a road called Charlton Settlement Avenue.
Charleston Settlement Subdivision is mentioned here:

https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2009/ey/bgrd/backgroundfile-19898.pdf

So sounds like whoever designed the landscaping for the subdivision thought this looked good.

I guess that's not really an explanation lol.

I tried Googling but I don't think Charlton Settlement is an actual historical settlement that was in the area or anything like that, as far as I can tell.