Highway 401 Transit and Auto Tunnel

[RapidTransit]

I'm pro Highway, and even I found this to be left field.

Doug has a better chance of building the Richview Crosstown Highway (which actually parallels the 401), and the Gardiner extension through to Scarborough, than building this tunnel.

I'm surprised Doug is proposing this tunnel under the 401, considering he wants an election within a year. They'll use this napkin idea against him when campaigning.

I'm sure Doug himself knows he shot himself in the foot in this one. He needs to speed up uploading the Gardiner and DVP to redeem himself. Might as well take Hwy 27, Black Creek and the Allen while he's at it too.

 

[J Bacon]

It's a weird situation. I'm thrilled about the ambition behind the idea, but I'm devastated as to Ford's 1950s-era mentality of focusing only on making driving as easy as possible in addressing our transportation needs.

You know what the electorate has been saying for decades? They want fast and convenient transit. But hey, let's spend all of their tax dollars on building infrastructure to get more people driving. That will surely solve our serious traffic problems. Maybe if we just stop the bike lanes from being built??

Is this a joke? Consider the 416 area.

What has the electorate been receiving for decades?
Billions of dollars worth of transit investment.

Over that same time period, have the highways and roads in that same area been receiving billions of dollars worth of expansions and additions?
No.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

The 401 from the 407 in W Mississauga, to Rouge Hill is about 60, at roughly $500 million per Km for construction (likely much much higher). We are talking about AT MINIMUM $30 BILLION, WITH A 'B'!, Imagine what can be done in the midtown corridor for that cost. You could probably buy out CP, quad track and electrify the b**ch and run GO trains.

And you'd still have money left over for other projects!

 

[Bureaucromancer]

I really DO want to see a real cost estimate on a specific version of this if for no other reason than to shop around what the same dollar value would do for transit.

 

[bearcat]

Is this a joke? Consider the 416 area.

What has the electorate been receiving for decades?
Billions of dollars worth of transit investment.

Over that same time period, have the highways and roads in that same area been receiving billions of dollars worth of expansions and additions?
No.

I agree that a decent amount of money has been spent on transit, but that doesn't mean that even more money shouldn't be spent on transit as opposed to highway expansion.

Perhaps because in a dense area that's already clogged with cars investing in transit is more cost effective to get people moving? The province doesn't have infinite money

 

[sixrings]

Is this a joke? Consider the 416 area.

What has the electorate been receiving for decades?
Billions of dollars worth of transit investment.

Over that same time period, have the highways and roads in that same area been receiving billions of dollars worth of expansions and additions?
No.

The highways and roads have had billions of dollars of maintenance. I think we’re at a toll everything stage and put all the tolls into transit.

 

[asey20]

I think they should explore the options. Curious to see what it will cost. Do I personally think its a good idea? Probably not. Is it exciting? Yes

 

[nfitz]

LMAO what a joke.

Hey Dougie I have a better idea. Double deck the express portion of the 401. ex Eastbound lanes above westbound lanes, that gives you more space for collector lanes and transit lines.

But then you can't sell off the existing land to developers.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Right, but you're completely evading the question that Paul posed. Where is the additional traffic going to exit to that has spare road capacity to accommodate it.?

I mean most arterial roads outside of the City of Toronto have plenty of spare capacity. Even within Toronto, often the worst congestion is on the freeways and not arterials outside of downtown (though there are exceptions). Not every exit from the provincial freeway network is operating at LOS F. In fact, the vast majority aren't.

The new traffic will go where growth is going - Brampton industrial parks critical to supporting the GTA's economy, etc.

As a whole, as others have alluded to, this is pretty pie in the sky as the lead time on it is so long as to basically be impossible to occur within a PC government, so is very unlikely.

 

[J Bacon]

The highways and roads have had billions of dollars of maintenance. I think we’re at a toll everything stage and put all the tolls into transit.

I'm referring to expansions, the 416 has had double digit billions in transit expansion over the decades.
Roads? Pretty much zero.

I agree that a decent amount of money has been spent on transit, but that doesn't mean that even more money shouldn't be spent on transit as opposed to highway expansion.

Perhaps because in a dense area that's already clogged with cars investing in transit is more cost effective to get people moving? The province doesn't have infinite money

Agree that more should be spent on transit but that doesn't mean you shouldn't invest in roads either.

 

[sixrings]

I'm referring to expansions, the 416 has had double digit billions in transit expansion over the decades.
Roads? Pretty much zero.


Agree that more should be spent on transit but that doesn't mean you shouldn't invest in roads either.

I’m saying roads and highways are extremely expensive to maintain. Drivers have gotten the maintenance. I don’t know how much more they can expect. Actually I don’t think they should expect anything. If anything…. Tolls.

 

[bearcat]

I'm referring to expansions, the 416 has had double digit billions in transit expansion over the decades.
Roads? Pretty much zero.


Agree that more should be spent on transit but that doesn't mean you shouldn't invest in roads either.

With the likey cost of this tunnel there won't be any money left over to invest in other things. That's my point. If the government had infinite money somehow, I wouldn't be strongly against this project.

 

[mr_content]

If we were talking about double-decking the 401, I don't personally believe it's a great solution, but fine, I get the idea. What I don't get is why this government—supposedly from the party of fiscal restraint, or so they say—would embarrass itself by proposing such a technically challenging, exorbitant project that could come with an eventual 12-figure pricetag and likely wouldn't be completed within Doug Ford's lifetime.

To be sure, there are projects worth investing that kind of time and money in (e.g. climate proofing, legitimate high-speed rail) and it would be nice to see governments display that kind of ambition instead of governing for short-term polling and the next election. But this project is not one of them.

 

[Amare]

The 401 from the 407 in W Mississauga, to Rouge Hill is about 60, at roughly $500 million per Km for construction (likely much much higher). We are talking about AT MINIMUM $30 BILLION, WITH A 'B'!, Imagine what can be done in the midtown corridor for that cost. You could probably buy out CP, quad track and electrify the b**ch and run GO trains.

And you'd still have money left over for other projects!

And we havent even factored in the standard "Ontario premium" for typical construction delays which run up the costs of giant infrastructure projects.

 

[nfitz]

This doesn't seem like a real proposal, but it only seems somewhat feasible if constructed as an express bypass to get from the one side of Toronto to the other.

It's utterly bizarre. Good grief, if you are dropping that kind of money, you do it on the Gardiner/DVP or build a completely new alignment. Not widen one of the biggest highways in the world, that already overwhelms intersecting arteries.

It only serves as a Toronto bypass - and we already have one of those.

This sounds more like an election goodie - that will be stalled to death after the election. Or descoped to add a couple of extra lanes between the 409 and 427.