Toronto Toronto City Hall and Nathan Phillips Square | ?m | ?s | City of Toronto | Perkins&Will
lightarchitect
Active Member
Tarp has kinda been removed and there are large raw edge granite slabs waiting for something.
rdaner
Senior Member
Taken 26 August.
Northern Light
Superstar
The Star is on today about the need to spruce up the Square:
www.thestar.com
The main complaints advanced were 'nothing to do' and 'not enough greenery/shade'.
On the former, I don't see the Square as home to any logical activity other than skating in the winter, that isn't tied into an event of some kind.
There could be more effort around routine programming though, say a daily concert, maybe working with City institutions such as the Opera Company down the street, the TSO, and major programmers like the Jazz Fest, and see if they can't each take one day a week from May to September each year.
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On greenery, I don't see the square as a spot for shade trees at its centre. What I think can be done is to replace the old flower planters with new granite ones that look better, and offer a few more, sub out the trampled muddy grasses for ferns and groundcovers and perennials, and add ornamental fences, and I actually like the Muskoka Chair idea from Cllr. Ainslie. To add shade, dare I suggest, some Cormier-inspired umbrellas next to some of those chairs?
‘There’s nothing to do here’: Is now the time for Toronto to fix Nathan Phillips Square?
When it isn’t hosting a big event, there are few reasons to visit Toronto’s concrete central plaza. But can the city afford to do better?
www.thestar.com
The main complaints advanced were 'nothing to do' and 'not enough greenery/shade'.
On the former, I don't see the Square as home to any logical activity other than skating in the winter, that isn't tied into an event of some kind.
There could be more effort around routine programming though, say a daily concert, maybe working with City institutions such as the Opera Company down the street, the TSO, and major programmers like the Jazz Fest, and see if they can't each take one day a week from May to September each year.
****
On greenery, I don't see the square as a spot for shade trees at its centre. What I think can be done is to replace the old flower planters with new granite ones that look better, and offer a few more, sub out the trampled muddy grasses for ferns and groundcovers and perennials, and add ornamental fences, and I actually like the Muskoka Chair idea from Cllr. Ainslie. To add shade, dare I suggest, some Cormier-inspired umbrellas next to some of those chairs?
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Start Fox
Active Member
All fair suggestions. However, in my view, it'll always look haphazard, slapped together, and just not good enough for the main square of a worldly city. The space needs a full, planned re-imagining from someone like CCxA.
Imagine Berczy Park or Love Park but on a larger scale. Take down the elevated walkway to open it up and include all the land south right up to Queen St. It would be large enough space that it could be a place to wander and get lost in, and there'd still be plenty of room for a beautiful bricked square in front of the existing stage. Add City Hall as the backdrop, and Old City Hall and the Law Society flanking on either side, and you can really imagine a truly world-class place.
Imagine Berczy Park or Love Park but on a larger scale. Take down the elevated walkway to open it up and include all the land south right up to Queen St. It would be large enough space that it could be a place to wander and get lost in, and there'd still be plenty of room for a beautiful bricked square in front of the existing stage. Add City Hall as the backdrop, and Old City Hall and the Law Society flanking on either side, and you can really imagine a truly world-class place.
Northern Light
Superstar
I believe the walkway is heritage designated. Certainly it has been considered an integral part of the design of City Hall, I can see removing the connection over Queen to the Sheraton Centre, and playing with the design at the margins to make it seem more inviting/accessible......but I don't think a wholesale teardown is in the cards.
The problem w/this is that you have a parking garage underneath the square, a huge one, that has waterproofing membrane to maintain, and which imposes some limitations to what you can do up top.
I'm not opposed to a wholesale re-design entirely, but its a big can of worms to open up...........and you're talking a stratospheric budget........take down the walkways, strip out everything on the surface, modify or remove (and backfill) all or portions of the garage).........we're way north of 100M.
There are so many compelling places the City needs to invest, I'm not sure I can personally justify that scale of investment in the Square right now.
My suggestions, can be delivered for under 1.5M
I'm not denigrating your idea at all, just saying, its a tough sell.
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yrt+viva=1system
Senior Member
But the money!!!
Sorry we can’t do any of that cause the City is a cheapskate and broke.
Rejuvenating the waterproofing membrane for the parking garage eats a huge chunk of whatever budget is set. By the end there’s nothing left for public space.
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Start Fox
Active Member
Ah interesting point re: heritage designation of the walkway. I find that quite funny actually. Of all things to designate!
You're quite right. Just as some rough math, Love Park is 2 acres and had a budget of ~$15 million. NPS is 12 acres so, all else being equal, that'd be $90 million (so approx. $100 million, just as you said).
That'd certainly be a tough expense to justify. Though we did just spend $92 million on two new ferries (I don't have an issue with the ferries, it's just a good example of a similarly priced item getting passed without too much debate). I do agree that if it's a zero-sum game and I'm getting to choose there are probably other things I'd rather invest in (e.x. the proposed University Park - though imagine the combination of University Park and a re-imagined NPS).
You're absolutely right in everything you said, but I can't help myself from dreaming! I'd like to think we are still capable of big, exciting city-building...
Northern Light
Superstar
No parking garage under Love Park though, and in truth, we VE'd Love Park in a few ways. We lessened the quality of pathway paving, we decided the pond didn't need to be year round or convertible for skating, we didn't provide public washrooms either.
Love Park is still a very good thing, Claude chose carefully where to VE, where possible, picking things that could be added-on or fixed later (washrooms, upgraded paving). Still, the 'dream' version of Love Park was likely closer to 25M
First, keep on dreaming. Nothing every changes with a shrug, and a "It'll have to do".
That said, regrettably, University Park is not on at the moment. That's even though a donor came forward to pay for some of the planning/EA costs for a portion, and U of T was willing to contribute millions. I can't speak to all the details, but some mixture of complexity of issues along with the true bill of doing even one segment completely just stalled it. It may come back, one day........but barring 200M or more falling from the sky...........not anytime soon.
Now.... I will tell you there are some potential big public realm projects, beyond the ones we know about that are moving too slowly for anyone's liking (John St, Downtown Yonge, Yonge - North York etc.).
But I can't get out in front of anybody's press releases, especially when there are details to iron out..... Hold out hope, demand better, but pick your battles too.
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taal
Senior Member
I think the complaints are highly exaggerated and folks seem to be forgetting the purpose of a large open space for events ... it's not a park ... it's meant to host large events with tens of thousands of people ... such spaces often feel underused outside of said events and that's fine ...
I like @Northern Light suggestions for small changes to help programming on days without said events.
With all that said, of course better maintenance, I still can't believe the water fountains aren't fix yet and the walkway / green roof aren't opened everyday.
I like @Northern Light suggestions for small changes to help programming on days without said events.
With all that said, of course better maintenance, I still can't believe the water fountains aren't fix yet and the walkway / green roof aren't opened everyday.
isaidso
Senior Member
How much was the VE'd version?
Northern Light
Superstar
15'ish.....included soil remediation.
UtakataNoAnnex
Senior Member
Lots of place around NPS to get shade from the sun. Always has been...