GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[Dan416]

When they built the new terminal closer to the Gardiner I thought that would help. But I guess in the intervening years since the bus terminal moved, traffic has just gotten that much worse. It's such a pain being stuck on a GO bus that is just trying to leave the station and get on the Gardiner, and of course proceeds to crawl on the Gardiner. I just can't with this Gardiner traffic and I can't understand why people are still putting themselves through that hassle of driving through it.

 

[Metroscapes]

When they built the new terminal closer to the Gardiner I thought that would help. But I guess in the intervening years since the bus terminal moved, traffic has just gotten that much worse. It's such a pain being stuck on a GO bus that is just trying to leave the station and get on the Gardiner, and of course proceeds to crawl on the Gardiner. I just can't with this Gardiner traffic and I can't understand why people are still putting themselves through that hassle of driving through it.

^^^ THIS is where a dedicated busway is needed.

 

[chrisw]

There's lots of night buses that leave Union Station for New York.

 

[Bordercollie]

There's lots of night buses that leave Union Station for New York.

I think that the solution would be to avoid having buses come to the downtown core.

Connections to express train service would be ideal. Allow intercity buses to terminate at highway 407 station, Unionville, Pickering and maybe Port Credit.

Via type or limited express service should link people downtown.

For off-peak buses can still come downtown but for peak times, it's just not practical.

 

[Hairball]

I think that the solution would be to avoid having buses come to the downtown core.

Connections to express train service would be ideal. Allow intercity buses to terminate at highway 407 station, Unionville, Pickering and maybe Port Credit.

Via type or limited express service should link people downtown.

For off-peak buses can still come downtown but for peak times, it's just not practical.

The 407 station has a big bus terminal, but it'd still take like 45 mins to take the subway downtown from there. From Unionville GO to Union is around the same. Express trains will help a little, but these places you are describing are very far from downtown...

 

[Bordercollie]

The 407 station has a big bus terminal, but it'd still take like 45 mins to take the subway downtown from there. From Unionville GO to Union is around the same. Express trains will help a little, but these places you are describing are very far from downtown...

But right now it takes 30min from the Gardiner to the bus terminal, what would you rather?

Oriole would be a great option. 20 min service is possible here with three train sets. You only need 3 cars. Half hour would work if you can time it. We own the tracks, so there is no conflict with CN

Trains can layover at old Cummer, and there are washrooms for crews, free parking with lots of spots.

 

[Bojaxs]

But right now it takes 30min from the Gardiner to the bus terminal, what would you rather?

Oriole would be a great option. 20 min service is possible here with three train sets. You only need 3 cars. Half hour would work if you can time it. We own the tracks, so there is no conflict with CN

Trains can layover at old Cummer, and there are washrooms for crews, free parking with lots of spots.

Sometimes I wonder if it would make sense for MX to run a 6 coach train back & forth between Union and Oriole throughout the day. Quick and easy access to the 401 for P&Rer's and the Sheppard line. It would definitely make more sense if MX were to purchase the Leaside Spur.

EDIT: Forgive me for not reading your entire post before responding. Would MX consider running a 3 coach train? Have they done that before? I just remembered they ran 4 coach train on the RH line during the pandemic.

 

[reaperexpress]

I think that the solution would be to avoid having buses come to the downtown core.

Connections to express train service would be ideal. Allow intercity buses to terminate at highway 407 station, Unionville, Pickering and maybe Port Credit.

Via type or limited express service should link people downtown.

For off-peak buses can still come downtown but for peak times, it's just not practical.

Many bus companies have already left Union station due to the traffic congestion. Of course we've noticed GO cutting service on bus route to Union such as the 21 Milton and 16 Hamilton Express, but intercity operators are doing the same. TOK Coachlines abandoned Union Station altogether, now terminating their Port Elgin route at Hwy 407 terminal.

Most Ontario Northland buses now terminate at Yorkdale with an intermediate stop at 407 terminal. Here's the current southbound schedule for Ontario Northland. The only buses going downtown are the ones that are going to the garage there anyway or the ones that are heading there anyway to start a northbound overnight trip.

This is definitely a mitigation but I don't think it's a solution. As others noted, it can take a long time to get downtown from some of the peripheral terminals so their success depends on there being all-day GO Express trains. Subways or local GO trains aren't as competitive.

That said, given that trains can become pretty competitive in the forseeable future I don't think there's a rationale for a busway downtown. The more cost-effective solution would just be bus lanes on Lakeshore Blvd for a couple blocks on either side of the bus terminal.

 

[goodcitywhenfinished]

I think that the solution would be to avoid having buses come to the downtown core.

Connections to express train service would be ideal. Allow intercity buses to terminate at highway 407 station, Unionville, Pickering and maybe Port Credit.

Via type or limited express service should link people downtown.

For off-peak buses can still come downtown but for peak times, it's just not practical.

The solution is a dedicated bus route in and out of the downtown core

 

[Bordercollie]

Many bus companies have already left Union station due to the traffic congestion. Of course we've noticed GO cutting service on bus route to Union such as the 21 Milton and 16 Hamilton Express, but intercity operators are doing the same. TOK Coachlines abandoned Union Station altogether, now terminating their Port Elgin route at Hwy 407 terminal.

Most Ontario Northland buses now terminate at Yorkdale with an intermediate stop at 407 terminal. Here's the current southbound schedule for Ontario Northland. The only buses going downtown are the ones that are going to the garage there anyway or the ones that are heading there anyway to start a northbound overnight trip.

This is definitely a mitigation but I don't think it's a solution. As others noted, it can take a long time to get downtown from some of the peripheral terminals so their success depends on there being all-day GO Express trains. Subways or local GO trains aren't as competitive.

That said, given that trains can become pretty competitive in the forseeable future I don't think there's a rationale for a busway downtown. The more cost-effective solution would just be bus lanes on Lakeshore Blvd for a couple blocks on either side of the bus terminal.

No space for extra lanes

 

[Bordercollie]

Sometimes I wonder if it would make sense for MX to run a 6 coach train back & forth between Union and Oriole throughout the day. Quick and easy access to the 401 for P&Rer's and the Sheppard line. It would definitely make more sense if MX were to purchase the Leaside Spur.

EDIT: Forgive me for not reading your entire post before responding. Would MX consider running a 3 coach train? Have they done that before? I just remembered they ran 4 coach train on the RH line during the pandemic.

There is a passing track at York Mills, and another at the bottom of the Don. So there is more than enough trackage if you time it right.

 

[crs1026]

With the Gardiner reduced to two lanes for a very long time, I doubt that a bus lane would be sellable either there or on Lakeshore..... but.... maybe when the work on the Gardiner is done, the City should just stick with two auto lanes and reopen the third lane as a bus lane. Or maybe then, Lakeshore could be reconfigured in that way.

This is a situation where the greater good is clearly met by fewer cars and more transit..... maybe by then the City will have enough resolve to actually take that rather bold step. And maybe GO rail service will be a little better also.

An equally sellable step would be to time the creation of the bus lanes to opening of the Ontario Line. Yeah, that's a way off.... but lots of time to signal that change starting today.

- Paul

 

[Bordercollie]

With the Gardiner reduced to two lanes for a very long time, I doubt that a bus lane would be sellable either there or on Lakeshore..... but.... maybe when the work on the Gardiner is done, the City should just stick with two auto lanes and reopen the third lane as a bus lane. Or maybe then, Lakeshore could be reconfigured in that way.

This is a situation where the greater good is clearly met by fewer cars and more transit..... maybe by then the City will have enough resolve to actually take that rather bold step. And maybe GO rail service will be a little better also.

An equally sellable step would be to time the creation of the bus lanes to opening of the Ontario Line. Yeah, that's a way off.... but lots of time to signal that change starting today.

- Paul

If there are no operating bottle necks between mimico and Rouge Hill you could run a Express shuttle between those stations. L3 consist would suffice. But again a faster connection to the 401 is what we really need. The DVP is a parking lot almost the whole day, and line 1 isn't without it's problems.

 

[reaperexpress]

With the Gardiner reduced to two lanes for a very long time, I doubt that a bus lane would be sellable either there or on Lakeshore..... but.... maybe when the work on the Gardiner is done, the City should just stick with two auto lanes and reopen the third lane as a bus lane. Or maybe then, Lakeshore could be reconfigured in that way.

This is a situation where the greater good is clearly met by fewer cars and more transit..... maybe by then the City will have enough resolve to actually take that rather bold step. And maybe GO rail service will be a little better also.

An equally sellable step would be to time the creation of the bus lanes to opening of the Ontario Line. Yeah, that's a way off.... but lots of time to signal that change starting today.

- Paul

I wasn't talking about taking over lanes on the Gardiner. There are not enough buses to justify that, nor will there ever be given the planned increases in train service.

I am suggesting that we introduced targeted bus priority measures in the immediate vicinity of the USBT as suggested by @ShonTron in this blog post. Most importantly widening the road to extend the bus lane further east:

Image by @ShonTron, marked up by me

 

[Bordercollie]

I wasn't talking about taking over lanes on the Gardiner. There are not enough buses to justify that, nor will there ever be given the planned increases in train service.

I am suggesting that we introduced targeted bus priority measures in the immediate vicinity of the USBT as suggested by @ShonTron in this blog post. Most importantly widening the road to extend the bus lane further east:

Image by @ShonTron, marked up by me

That doesn't solve the problem in getting to the bus terminal in the first place.