Toronto Lower Don Lands Redevelopment | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto

rdaner said:
I still don’t get the late development timelines! lol What about the other districts? There have been uses on the Portlands for decades such as Pinewood and Rebel. There must be a reason.
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I wish someone would explain this, I just saw the new designs for the St Lawrence Center… for 2030. It’s kinda like we’ve given up on the 20s already. Is it interest rates? Supply chains? Are all available workers booked for the rest of the decade? Nobody has talked about it, but there’s no archaeological digs for the Port Lands, right? I feel like the current political climate would be super permissive for private builders, so they might want to take advantage of that no?
 
I’m not sure what you mean by “local population” but until recently the Loblaws at Queens Quay had virtually nobody living close to it.
 
evandyk said:
I’m not sure what you mean by “local population” but until recently the Loblaws at Queens Quay had virtually nobody living close to it.
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Yes but for decades you had people living along the Esplanade, Queens Quay (West of Bay) and near St Lawrence Market.

Loblaws served that segment of the population quite well until Metro, Sobeys and Longos came onto the scene.
 
Richard White said:
Yes but for decades you had people living along the Esplanade, Queens Quay (West of Bay) and near St Lawrence Market.

Loblaws served that segment of the population quite well until Metro, Sobeys and Longos came onto the scene.
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Would be interesting to see how grocery stores began to penetrate the downtown core over the last twenty years, cuz I feel like the lack thereof was the main reason why Jarvis Loblaws and its giant parking lot did so well. It was Ryerson Metro and Spadina Chinatown for awhile.

The other detail from the meeting I thought interesting was when someone inquired about bird safety- and a rep had mentioned that due to environmental requirements, the towers would not be predominantly glass.
 
Still no pics of the ghost bridge? Am I going to be the first to shoot it this weekend? Will no one else beat me to it? Challenge! ;)
 
evandyk said:
I’m not sure what you mean by “local population” but until recently the Loblaws at Queens Quay had virtually nobody living close to it.
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Big difference here will be drastically different parking situations.

If there is a big box grocer on Villiers then shoppers from north in corktown will likely be divided between here and Rocco’s No Frills; shoppers from the east will be divided between here, the Leslie-Lake Shore grocers, and Jeff’s No Frills; and finally shoppers from the west will probably be served best by QQ Loblaws.

If we’re looking for something early 2030s maybe East Harbour would support a larger store just based on transit access.

hawc said:
Still no pics of the ghost bridge? Am I going to be the first to shoot it this weekend? Will no one else beat me to it? Challenge! ;)
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Challenge accepted but it will probably look much better with flyover drone shots!
 
greenleaf said:
This may be wrong, but it was my understanding that a local population of 20,000-25,000 is needed to sustain a grocery store. That should be a goal of Villiers here IMO. 8500-9000 units seems like it may not make this threshold.
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Well, there used to be a full T&T in the Portlands when precisely nobody lived there, so it's not out of the realm of possibility.
 
greenleaf said:
This may be wrong, but it was my understanding that a local population of 20,000-25,000 is needed to sustain a grocery store. That should be a goal of Villiers here IMO. 8500-9000 units seems like it may not make this threshold.
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This is incorrect.

That number comes out of the suburban U.S. and is really looking more at the hypermarket size (greater than 50,000ft2)

The broad planning model is one supermarket to every 11,000 people. (NYC published a report saying one 15,000ft2 market to every 10,000 people is desirable)

Obviously, total population/customer reach is a function of both store size as well as much competitors can hive off from you.

Reach for a supermarket w/parking, will be well beyond 1km. The trade area or catchment of a typical chain supermarket is generally understood as a 3km radius of the store. (core radius is 500M)

Again, this will vary based on parking, traffic, transit, density, walking experience etc. and the less distance the higher proportion of your customer base is typically the rule.

Downtown Toronto currently runs at one supermarket to every 11,000 people.

This is a list of downtown supermarkets from 2016, with average ft2 shown; the list has since evolved:

1711553099918.png

 
Northern Light said:
This is incorrect.

That number comes out of the suburban U.S. and is really looking more at the hypermarket size (greater than 50,000ft2)

The broad planning model is one supermarket to every 11,000 people. (NYC published a report saying one 15,000ft2 market to every 10,000 people is desirable)

Obviously, total population/customer reach is a function of both store size as well as much competitors can hive off from you.

Reach for a supermarket w/parking, will be well beyond 1km. The trade area or catchment of a typical chain supermarket is generally understood as a 3km radius of the store. (core radius is 500M)

Again, this will vary based on parking, traffic, transit, density, walking experience etc. and the less distance the higher proportion of your customer base is typically the rule.

Downtown Toronto currently runs at one supermarket to every 11,000 people.

This is a list of downtown supermarkets from 2016, with average ft2 shown; the list has since evolved:

View attachment 551514
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The square footage on the 200 Front East seems way too big. Just comparing to the QQE Loblaws doesn't seem like those spaces are anything close to the same size.
 
max said:
The square footage on the 200 Front East seems way too big. Just comparing to the QQE Loblaws doesn't seem like those spaces are anything close to the same size.
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Yeah, the 200 Front East one is definitely wrong. No question, I previously posted the exact ft2 somewhere, it's not more than 1/2 that, probably a bit less.

That's probably all the retail space in 200 Front East.
 
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