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Rail Deck Park (?, ?, ?)

And as I like to point out on a regular basis:

We have a giant patch of urban wasteland in our downtown called Exhibition Place that everyone in this region forgets exists outside of two weeks in August.

Whenever Toronto is ready to stop being mediocre, I’ll be the first one on the bulldozers so we can demolish that massive waste of concrete build a great urban park there 👍

As far as I’m concerned, we could have the worlds greatest urban park there if we spent just a fraction of Rail Deck’s proposed budget.

I don't think that is on the table. People on here seem to think that it only gets used for the ex. The parking lot is used for people attending events as well when the ex isn't on. Also when the Indy race is on the parking lot is taken up by the racing teams as well as the stands for people to watch along with other things to support the race.
Exhibition Place is a 200-acre plot of land, that exists spitting distance from one of the densest residential developments in Canada, and just minutes away from Queen's Quay. It should go without saying that the City of Toronto is surely sitting on one of the most valuable plots of land in any city in North America. Yet, outside of 25-ish days a year, this site is utterly irrelevant to 99% of Torotonains.

I refuse to believe that Exhibition Place is presently generating the greatest value possible for Torotonians. That is simply not possible. If we cannot come up with a better use for Exhibition Place, that speaks more to our lack of ambition and imagination, that it does to any inherent limitations of the grounds.

Regarding the events, we can find accommodations for all of them:

Caribana
Caribana is the biggest event here. The parade runs through Lakeshore Blvd, so its route should largely be unaffected. The parade's staging grounds could be moved to Marilyn Bell Park to the west.

The Ex
The Ex would be difficult to accommodate on the Exhibition Grounds, so I would suggest simply moving the event to Downsview Park.

With Downsview Park having direct access to Line 1, the event would actually be more accessible there than it is at its current location. Visitors to The Ex would no longer have to line up for slow and overcrowded buses and streetcars to access the event. Further, this configuration would mean that commuters utilizing the 510 Bathurst and 29 Dufferin would no longer have to put up with their buses being useless two weeks out of the year, due to overcrowding from Ex visitors.

The Indy
The Indy would be the most difficult to accommodate, however if we're rebuilding the Ex's grounds largely from scratch, we should be able to find accommodations. I would imagine that the race route could remain as is, and the park could be built around it. Staging areas for the event could be moved elsewhere on the site.

If The Indy cannot be accommodated here or relocated elsewhere, I'm completely fine with retiring the event. I do not believe The Indy alone generates enough value for Torotonians to justify keeping this site in its current state.

Other Events
I used to work at the Ex, and I found the Enercare Centre to be grossly oversized for the events it hosts. Last time I looked, I couldn't find any structures in the Old City of Toronto with a larger footprint. For reference, the Enercare Centre is 1.8 square kms, and the Eaton Centre is "only" 1.3 square kms.

Personally, I'd be quite content with just demolishing the whole Enercare Centre, and tell the events that are hosted there to find an alternate space. But if we must replace the space, Downsview Park would likely be the best alternative, as it has a lot of space available, with direct access to Line 1.


Plus turning it into a park isn't going to bring tourists to there.

What makes you say that? People travel to MTL for Mont Royale, to Vancouver for Stanley Park, NYC for Central Park, Barcelona for Park Guell and to Chicago for Millenium Park. Great parks are one of the top tourist draws in basically any great city. Toronto presently has zero great parks.

And even if it doesn’t induce tourism, there’s nothing wrong about building great amenities for locals. I can assure you Toronto, it's okay to have nice things.
 
I don't think that is on the table. People on here seem to think that it only gets used for the ex. The parking lot is used for people attending events as well when the ex isn't on. Also when the Indy race is on the parking lot is taken up by the racing teams as well as the stands for people to watch along with other things to support the race.

Plus turning it into a park isn't going to bring tourists to there.
1) If you're re-doing the vast majority of the property you can put underground parking.

2) Turning it into mixed-use with focus on the park aspect (maybe even in conjunction with Ontario Place if you include burying Lake Shore Blvd under it and kill off that barrier) could definitely result in an increase in tourism. There is a lot of land there.
 
Billy Bishop airport would be the best location for a great park. All those new ORCA residents could take the short walk down Bathurst and cross a pedestrian bridge and stroll to Hanlan's point.
 
1) If you're re-doing the vast majority of the property you can put underground parking.

2) Turning it into mixed-use with focus on the park aspect (maybe even in conjunction with Ontario Place if you include burying Lake Shore Blvd under it and kill off that barrier) could definitely result in an increase in tourism. There is a lot of land there.
In Disney World, the service corridors are UNDER the park.
mickey-in-disney-utilidors-600x335.jpg

minnie-and-mickey-in-utilidors.jpg

construction-of-disney-utilidors.jpg

construction-of-utilidors-at-disney.jpg

disney-utilidor-map.jpg

See link.

There is already an 1,300 underground parking garage under the Enercare Centre. While the larger crowds that arrive by public transit have a l-o-n-g safari across an asphalt desert. Would be better if there actually was a "park" on the surface of Exhibition Place.
 
Exhibition Place is a 200-acre plot of land, that exists spitting distance from one of the densest residential developments in Canada, and just minutes away from Queen's Quay. It should go without saying that the City of Toronto is surely sitting on one of the most valuable plots of land in any city in North America. Yet, outside of 25-ish days a year, this site is utterly irrelevant to 99% of Torotonains.

I refuse to believe that Exhibition Place is presently generating the greatest value possible for Torotonians. That is simply not possible. If we cannot come up with a better use for Exhibition Place, that speaks more to our lack of ambition and imagination, that it does to any inherent limitations of the grounds.

Regarding the events, we can find accommodations for all of them:

Caribana
Caribana is the biggest event here. The parade runs through Lakeshore Blvd, so its route should largely be unaffected. The parade's staging grounds could be moved to Marilyn Bell Park to the west.

The Ex
The Ex would be difficult to accommodate on the Exhibition Grounds, so I would suggest simply moving the event to Downsview Park.

With Downsview Park having direct access to Line 1, the event would actually be more accessible there than it is at its current location. Visitors to The Ex would no longer have to line up for slow and overcrowded buses and streetcars to access the event. Further, this configuration would mean that commuters utilizing the 510 Bathurst and 29 Dufferin would no longer have to put up with their buses being useless two weeks out of the year, due to overcrowding from Ex visitors.

The Indy
The Indy would be the most difficult to accommodate, however if we're rebuilding the Ex's grounds largely from scratch, we should be able to find accommodations. I would imagine that the race route could remain as is, and the park could be built around it. Staging areas for the event could be moved elsewhere on the site.

If The Indy cannot be accommodated here or relocated elsewhere, I'm completely fine with retiring the event. I do not believe The Indy alone generates enough value for Torotonians to justify keeping this site in its current state.

Other Events
I used to work at the Ex, and I found the Enercare Centre to be grossly oversized for the events it hosts. Last time I looked, I couldn't find any structures in the Old City of Toronto with a larger footprint. For reference, the Enercare Centre is 1.8 square kms, and the Eaton Centre is "only" 1.3 square kms.

Personally, I'd be quite content with just demolishing the whole Enercare Centre, and tell the events that are hosted there to find an alternate space. But if we must replace the space, Downsview Park would likely be the best alternative, as it has a lot of space available, with direct access to Line 1.




What makes you say that? People travel to MTL for Mont Royale, to Vancouver for Stanley Park, NYC for Central Park, Barcelona for Park Guell and to Chicago for Millenium Park. Great parks are one of the top tourist draws in basically any great city. Toronto presently has zero great parks.

And even if it doesn’t induce tourism, there’s nothing wrong about building great amenities for locals. I can assure you Toronto, it's okay to have nice things.

Sorry, but I don't want to schlep all the way up to Downsview to attend larger events. And just because it's on line 1 doesn't mean it's not in the middle of a wasteland.
 
I think using Downsview for the Ex is a fascinating idea. It's about time we start rebuilding the inner suburbs to be more urban and metropolitan and have to interesting places and destinations that matter to the whole city. The caveat is accessibility, but the Downsview area has two subway stations.
A bit of a problem with the water ski show.
😄
 
I wouldn’t kill off the Ex or any of the traditions at the CNE, including newer ones like the Indy. I’d put the surface parking underground and replace most of the surface asphalt with grass and greenery. The rides and other temporary festival gear can be on grass instead of asphalt.
 
A developer-led plan to build an open-space district where the City of Toronto had at one time planned to build a Rail Deck Park will be coming to an online public meeting Feb. 23.

The meeting is intended to restart discussions about building a mixed use, open-space district over the rail corridor between Blue Jays Way and Bathurst Street.

Toronto had in 2016 launched an ambitious plan to build new parkland on a deck over rail lands in that space — but to do so would require lands controlled by a consortium of developers.

In 2021, Toronto’s Local Appeals Body ruled that Toronto could not block plans by the consortium to build the new district on the site.

In a news release, the project team looking to build the site announced that a public meeting/open house will “reset” discussions on the future of the site.

The project team, which includes SvN Architects + Planners, Sweeney & Co, and McMillan Associates Architects (the original design architect of Raid Deck Park).

The meeting comes before a plan to submit a rezoning application to the City of Toronto, in the early spring of 2022.

The meeting will take place Feb. 23 between 6:30 and 7:30 p.m. To register, visit RailDeckReset.com.

From: https://www.thestar.com/local-toron...wn-toronto-kicks-off-with-public-meeting.html
 
Is there any way this could still become a great public space if it includes development? I wasn't impressed at all by the park aspect of the Orca proposal.
 
So if built, will it have to include an "underground" station at Spadina? If the City couldn't build RDP because the courts said the developers owned the land then could ML & the City not basically blackmail these same developers by stating that we are not going to give you permits to built your precious condos unless you also build and pay for Spadina GO station?
 
So if built, will it have to include an "underground" station at Spadina? If the City couldn't build RDP because the courts said the developers owned the land then could ML & the City not basically blackmail these same developers by stating that we are not going to give you permits to built your precious condos unless you also build and pay for Spadina GO station?
theres 2 things in that statement.
1. the city can kinda say whatever they want in terms of dev approvals OLT appeals aside.
2. spadina go is a certainty, its going to happen, its only doing barrie line only though. thats the reason why its a non-priority project. probably will happen during or after go expansion.

The reason why theyre doing the reset IMO is that they see the public opposition to it, and the original design was simply so that they could say theyre using the land and prevent the city from blocking them from building.
Now that the courts say the city cant zone it entirely as parkland, theyre going back to the drawing board to do a more detailed design and to shut the community up so they can get their dev approval

from the original design they remove 2 towers and say heres some more parkland. Thats my guess
 

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