VIA Rail

[smallspy]

I knew that the coaches would be semi-permanently coupled together, but it was never clear how the locomotive would be coupled to the coaches. As I mentioned in post #9,978, Transport Action Canada claimed that it would be a standard coupler. Obviously they were (once again) mistaken. There really isn't much need to semi-permanently couple the locomotive to the train (passengers aren't walking between the two), so the only reason to semi-permanently couple it would be to increase flexibility, and allow trains of any configuration, rather than requiring locomotives to be coupled to a Business 3A coach (and vice versa). OTOH, using a standard coupler would make it quicker and easier to swap out the locomotive if necessary and allow standard coaches to be inserted between the locomotive and the first Venture coach.

Does anyone know if this type of semi-permanent coupler is bidirectional? In other words, do coaches have the same coupler at both ends or are there different front and back couplers?

If you look at the back of the loco, the rest of the standard connections there - HEP, MU, COMM, etc. - are as they usually are on a loco. The only thing that's changed is the coupler - or lack thereof.

The drawbar that goes into that pocket is not "handed", and so yes, the orientation and even number of the individual coaches can be changed if necessary.

I would assume that the another benefit of semi-permanent couplings is increased lateral and longitudinal rigidity , but that would depend on the specific design and is almost certainly less important than the operational benefits of standardized couplers.

Safety in an accident is part of the reasoning, yes. But comfort is also a very, very big part of it.

Those of us who have ridden in the leading section of a J-train a lot will remember the feeling of getting "bucked" around far more than on a normal train. This is due to the slack in the couplers, and the loco behind powering up to catch up to the leading loco. Even with the current tightlock couplers, there is still slack in the system, and combined over many coaches can amount to a substantial distance. The problem is so well known that some crews would do things like isolate the second loco, which leaves it in idle for the time it's coupled and connected.

Drawbars eliminate this problem altogether.

I'm sure that you could have some type of emergency coupler if you wanted to. Or connect the conventional cars at the end of the fixed trainset. But then you would need to wye the train at the destination.

At least you can still have a mixed J-train consist.

One could also just run around the non-Siemens coaches as well at the ends of the run, too. Both ends of the trainset have all of the standard connections, as well as the couplers.

I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere else yet. Looks like they're 4200hp given that the Amtrak SC-44s have 4400hp while the Brightline SC-40s have 4000hp. Not sure why though.

For the same reason why the long-distance Amtrak locos are rated at 4200hp. To increase the servicing intervals, and thus the maintenance requirements.

By derating them (as well as a couple of other minor changes), they are allowed to have an interval of 184 days between service inspections under FRA's item 49 CFR 230.15, which normally calls for a 92 day interval. TC has allowed for these same sets of rules to take effect in Canada, although it seems to be much harder to find reference to them.

Dan

 

[Bordercollie]

If you look at the back of the loco, the rest of the standard connections there - HEP, MU, COMM, etc. - are as they usually are on a loco. The only thing that's changed is the coupler - or lack thereof.

The drawbar that goes into that pocket is not "handed", and so yes, the orientation and even number of the individual coaches can be changed if necessary.


Safety in an accident is part of the reasoning, yes. But comfort is also a very, very big part of it.

Those of us who have ridden in the leading section of a J-train a lot will remember the feeling of getting "bucked" around far more than on a normal train. This is due to the slack in the couplers, and the loco behind powering up to catch up to the leading loco. Even with the current tightlock couplers, there is still slack in the system, and combined over many coaches can amount to a substantial distance. The problem is so well known that some crews would do things like isolate the second loco, which leaves it in idle for the time it's coupled and connected.

Drawbars eliminate this problem altogether.


One could also just run around the non-Siemens coaches as well at the ends of the run, too. Both ends of the trainset have all of the standard connections, as well as the couplers.


For the same reason why the long-distance Amtrak locos are rated at 4200hp. To increase the servicing intervals, and thus the maintenance requirements.

By derating them (as well as a couple of other minor changes), they are allowed to have an interval of 184 days between service inspections under FRA's item 49 CFR 230.15, which normally calls for a 92 day interval. TC has allowed for these same sets of rules to take effect in Canada, although it seems to be much harder to find reference to them.

Dan

I guess you could also put a standard loco at the back of the legacy trainset so that they can run the train backwards.

 

[cplchanb]

I guess you could also put a standard loco at the back of the legacy trainset so that they can run the train backwards.

theyre pretty much doing that most of the time right?

 

[Bordercollie]

theyre pretty much doing that most of the time right?

They could bring back the chalk river sub or the Beachburg Sub.

Short sighted for tearing up those northern lines

 

[Urban Sky]

They could bring back the chalk river sub or the Beachburg Sub.

Short sighted for tearing up those northern lines

As much as many people here lament this, neither route through the Ottawa River has survived, so what exactly is your suggestion concerning VIA Rail as the subject of this thread?

 

[Bordercollie]

As much as many people here lament this, neither route through the Ottawa River has survived, so what exactly is your suggestion concerning the subject of this thread?

It would provide another route to get from east to west. Didn't the Beachburg Sub allow them to cut through Algonquin park and get to Ottawa? So they can avoid the congestion of Toronto and the Kingston Sub.

 

[Urban Sky]

It would provide another route to get from east to west. Didn't the Beachburg Sub allow them to cut through Algonquin park and get to Ottawa? So they can avoid the congestion of Toronto and the Kingston Sub.

Who is "they" and why can't this be discussed in the "general railway discussions" thread instead? As far as it concerns VIA, there are only two possible paths towards the West and both pass through Toronto (which luckily happens to be its most important hub)...

 

[Bordercollie]

Who is "they" and why can't this be discussed in the "general railway discussions" thread instead? As far as it concerns VIA, there are only two possible paths towards the West and both pass through Toronto (which luckily happens to be its most important hub)...

Sorry I was referring to CN.

 

[DirectionNorth]

It would provide another route to get from east to west. Didn't the Beachburg Sub allow them to cut through Algonquin park and get to Ottawa? So they can avoid the congestion of Toronto and the Kingston Sub.

That bridge was crossed (or rather, made uncrossable) decades ago. In Ottawa discussions, I think all sources point to a deteriorated ROW.

I wouldn't oppose it, but there would be resistance, and I don't think it would be viable unless Ontario Northland or some shortline/government took it up.

 

[kEiThZ]

I wonder if VIA takes up the opportunity to change service delivery with HFR.

Right now, VIA recommends arriving 30 mins before departure if you have a reservation and 1 hr prior if you don't. Then there's the whole lining up before boarding at the larger terminus stations. And weighing bags...

Most of this isn't really great for the customer experience today. Would be even less sensible for HFR.

 

[littlewill1166]

I wonder if VIA takes up the opportunity to change service delivery with HFR.

Right now, VIA recommends arriving 30 mins before departure if you have a reservation and 1 hr prior if you don't. Then there's the whole lining up before boarding at the larger terminus stations. And weighing bags...

Most of this isn't really great for the customer experience today. Would be even less sensible for HFR.

If you arrive 5 minutes before (like I do), they skip the whole bag weighing shenanigans in London (and sometimes Toronto) because they don't want you holding up the train.

At the intermediate stations, just watch tsimobile.viarail.ca and arrive 5 minutes before the train's estimated time so you don't have to sit around doing nothing at the station waiting for a delayed train. Also watch out for delays on other trains going over single track cause those delays cascade.

I think the 30 minute thing is mostly for people who have no idea what they are doing on the off chance they get lost in the station.

Also, I don't get why people wait in line to board anything. I just wait til they make a final boarding call cause it's one less minute I have to spend in a cramped tube or standing in line.

 

[reaperexpress]

If you arrive 5 minutes before (like I do), they skip the whole bag weighing shenanigans in London (and sometimes Toronto) because they don't want you holding up the train.

At the intermediate stations, just watch tsimobile.viarail.ca and arrive 5 minutes before the train's estimated time so you don't have to sit around doing nothing at the station waiting for a delayed train. Also watch out for delays on other trains going over single track cause those delays cascade.

I think the 30 minute thing is mostly for people who have no idea what they are doing on the off chance they get lost in the station.

Also, I don't get why people wait in line to board anything. I just wait til they make a final boarding call cause it's one less minute I have to spend in a cramped tube or standing in line.

Yeah in general the boarding at minor stations (Oshawa, Oakville, etc) is fine, you can just show up before departure like a normal train service. But the problem is that the way VIA has organized platform access at major stations (Toronto Union, Montréal Centrale) means that there isn't sufficient vertical circulation capacity to/from the platforms for everyone to arrive 5 minutes before departure like you and I do.

 

[roger1818]

Why has VIA started weighing carry on bags? Are they afraid the luggage racks will crumple under the weight? Is it that those with heavy bags might need help carrying the bags on and off the train?

 

[littlewill1166]

Why has VIA started weighing carry on bags? Are they afraid the luggage racks will crumple under the weight? Is it that those with heavy bags might need help carrying the bags on and off the train?

Their job description only requires them to lift 50 pounds.

https://acuspire.ai/jobs/On-Train-Service-Attendant-fec4b5a32ccf2639?utm_campaign=google_jobs_apply&utm_source=google_jobs_apply&utm_medium=organic

Yeah in general the boarding at minor stations (Oshawa, Oakville, etc) is fine, you can just show up before departure like a normal train service. But the problem is that the way VIA has organized platform access at major stations (Toronto Union, Montréal Centrale) means that there isn't sufficient vertical circulation capacity to/from the platforms for everyone to arrive 5 minutes before departure like you and I do.

Boarding doesn't start until 15 minutes before on 71. Yet people start standing in line long before. As long as people keep doing that, I doubt anything is going to change.

Nonetheless, GO and VIA are going to be sharing a platform.

Redirect Notice

www.google.com

So people might start bypassing the line via the York concourse like they do in the US with Amtrak.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/2014/3/31/5563600/everything-you-need-to-know-about-boarding-an-amtrak-train

 

[kEiThZ]

Yeah in general the boarding at minor stations (Oshawa, Oakville, etc) is fine, you can just show up before departure like a normal train service. But the problem is that the way VIA has organized platform access at major stations (Toronto Union, Montréal Centrale) means that there isn't sufficient vertical circulation capacity to/from the platforms for everyone to arrive 5 minutes before departure like you and I do.

Yep. I generally use Guildwood or Oshawa. So this isn't a huge issue for me. And even in Montreal or Ottawa, I never bother waiting in line. I don't see the point when I have a reserved seat. That said, they need to modernize their operations. There's some issues with the whole line up concept at major stations.

The thing is they can't continue this practice when they have a departure every 20-30 minutes in the future. So either it needs to evolve to something like the GO train (open platform access with self-validation and spot checks) or maybe a fare paid zone, like what we see in some countries for individual platforms or the whole train shed. The latter though, becomes difficult at stations where there's platforms shared with other services. So VIA might need a hybrid model of a fare paid zone at major/terminus stations and validation at time of boarding at minor stations.

In any event, I hope they move from the current model. I'd like to get to the point where I can tap my phone/Presto/Opus/ticket on a fare gate and get onto the platform and just walk on to the train. I think this should be service concept goal.