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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

I’ve been on the first off peak 9:34 AM train to Kitchener and i’ve gotta say, things have improved a lot and it’s a lot nicer than the express bus connection. Union-Bramalea is of course the most optimized so the train breezed through without problems, and Bramalea-Georgetown wasn’t too bad either. There were slowdowns at Acton and just before Guelph but it was just a minor signal issue. Guelph-Kitchener definitely needs work but towards the end of the trip is where things picked up, traveling at 50-60km/h until we got to the platforms at Kitchener. We made it in exactly 2 hours (11:34 AM), which isn’t bad for an ‘all stops’ train, and a point in the right direction, but of course still needs some work. I’m glad we got train service every 3 hours and planning a day trip is way easier now. I’m so glad work is being done for an all day Kitchener line especially since most of the crowd on the train were post secondary students most likely heading to the universities in Waterloo. Speaking of which, the bus route 30 extension is a really nice connection if you are continuing to those destinations and beyond and now we just need to hope for weekend service.

I then took the 2:41 PM return trip back to the GTA and we started off very strong at speeds up to 80-110km/h and got almost to the Guelph border before things slowed down drastically again, now seeing the work being done on laying another track down. There were lots of passengers getting on and off at Guelph Central and that’s a very pleasing note to take in that KW-Guelph travel has drastically been improved. The bus connections are now once again reasonable, making the trip a 60-90 mins journey, which isn’t bad but definitely doesn’t beat the 15-25 mins it takes on train, which could even be brought down to 10-15 mins when all the work is finished. Anyways when leaving Guelph, we picked back up at that same 80-110km/h range, and it felt consistent even through a minor stop at Acton. At Georgetown there’s another slowdown approaching its station but it isn’t so bad compared to the Guelph one earlier. From there, as we head into Brampton/Toronto it obviously became easier to maintain the consistent speeds even as the peak trains make its way in the opposite direction. Out of all the service changes we got, this is definitely the best one by far but that could change as i experience the changes on other train lines.
 
robmausser said:
Beyond a mild disappointment to be honest. Tons of money was spend on a station in order to solve a logistical problem with Hamilton GO (which is by far in a better location but simply stymied by the fact that it is owned by CP and a tunnel that would cost way too much money to expand) and they didnt even solve the f$%%ing logistical problem.
Click to expand...
Honestly, if it weren’t CP I think it would happen. The tunnel will be expensive but surely even with our ridiculous prices a billion or two? Seems like even that would be a justifiable price for trains into the heart of the city,
 
superelevation said:
Honestly, if it weren’t CP I think it would happen. The tunnel will be expensive but surely even with our ridiculous prices a billion or two? Seems like even that would be a justifiable price for trains into the heart of the city,
Click to expand...
The question is whether that money could be better spent. Hamilton GO is always going to be the end of that line, compared to West Harbour, which is an intermediate stop on a longer line. A complete shoot from the hip, for the cost of that tunnel upgrade, you could:
  • Build the dedicated trackage for frequent service to Stoney creek
  • Add a station at Ottawa Street
  • Upgrade bus service on Barton
  • Extend the LRT down James St to connect to West Harbour
Ideally, you do these things and improve the service to Hamilton GO. But, if I wanted to service more people, these upgrades would do that.
 
superelevation said:
Honestly, if it weren’t CP I think it would happen. The tunnel will be expensive but surely even with our ridiculous prices a billion or two? Seems like even that would be a justifiable price for trains into the heart of the city,
Click to expand...
The tunnel is a 570m stretch of cut-and-cover under a public street, so probably a fair bit less than a billion. The going rate for bored subway projects is about $300M per km including stations, and cut and cover is generally cheaper than bored. So surely just raising the corners of the roof of the tunnel would cost less than $300M.

The off-peak express service will need to remain at West Harbour in order to continue into Niagara, but it would be nice to have, for example, two local trains per hour terminating at Hamilton Centre.
 
tsm1072 said:
The question is whether that money could be better spent. Hamilton GO is always going to be the end of that line, compared to West Harbour, which is an intermediate stop on a longer line. A complete shoot from the hip, for the cost of that tunnel upgrade, you could:
  • Build the dedicated trackage for frequent service to Stoney creek
  • Add a station at Ottawa Street
  • Upgrade bus service on Barton
  • Extend the LRT down James St to connect to West Harbour
Ideally, you do these things and improve the service to Hamilton GO. But, if I wanted to service more people, these upgrades would do that.
Click to expand...
reaperexpress said:
The tunnel is a 570m stretch of cut-and-cover under a public street, so probably a fair bit less than a billion. The going rate for bored subway projects is about $300M per km including stations, and cut and cover is generally cheaper than bored. So surely just raising the corners of the roof of the tunnel would cost less than $300M.

The off-peak express service will need to remain at West Harbour in order to continue into Niagara, but it would be nice to have, for example, two local trains per hour terminating at Hamilton Centre.
Click to expand...

I think the direct service to the downtown (which we should hope booms in population along with LRT) should probably be the goal
 
reaperexpress said:
The tunnel is a 570m stretch of cut-and-cover under a public street, so probably a fair bit less than a billion. The going rate for bored subway projects is about $300M per km including stations, and cut and cover is generally cheaper than bored. So surely just raising the corners of the roof of the tunnel would cost less than $300M.

The off-peak express service will need to remain at West Harbour in order to continue into Niagara, but it would be nice to have, for example, two local trains per hour terminating at Hamilton Centre.
Click to expand...

As a comparison, the 401/409 tunnel is a twin bore each 182ish meters in length. I don't know if the horizontal pile method is capable of boring a longer tunnel, but the total cost was about $100M per bore. One has to assume that a second bore might be constructable without displacing CP

But for the same cost, LRT tracks from West Harbour to the downtown would likely be of similar or less cost. or even BRT. Maybe that would grow out the downtown quite nicely and provide adequate connectivity.

- Paul
 
reaperexpress said:
The tunnel is a 570m stretch of cut-and-cover under a public street, so probably a fair bit less than a billion. The going rate for bored subway projects is about $300M per km including stations, and cut and cover is generally cheaper than bored. So surely just raising the corners of the roof of the tunnel would cost less than $300M.
Click to expand...

I had heard (perhaps wrongly) that the solution being looked at was a dig-down (ie. underpinning) to gain the additional height needed to support double-stack containers, on two tracks.

Do you have any sense on the relatively viability and costs?
 
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Northern Light said:
I had heard (perhaps wrongly) that the solution being looking at was a dig-down (ie. underpinning) to gain the additional height needed to support double-stack containers, on two tracks.

Do you have any sense on the relatively viability and costs?
Click to expand...
Digging down from the current tunnel is probably cheaper than digging down from the street to the current tunnel, so at the face of it, it sounds like a good idea. My only question would be if that could maintain an acceptable grade from the lowered tunnel up into the station.

I don't have relevant info or expertise to contribute regarding viability or costs.
 
Northern Light said:
I had heard (perhaps wrongly) that the solution being looking at was a dig-down (ie. underpinning) to gain the additional height needed to support double-stack containers, on two tracks.

Do you have any sense on the relatively viability and costs?
Click to expand...

As the tunnel was originally built as a double-tracked structure, either digging-down or building a new cap overtop of it seems to be the idea that I've heard thrown around the most - either of those would be by far and away easier and cheaper to accomplish versus digging a new bore.

I don't have grade maps for that line, but from what I recall lowering the rail a couple of feet is certain not a difficult prospect in the least, in terms of the alignment of the surrounding lines.

Dan
 

Quick Facts​

  • The trip from London to Toronto’s Union Station will take approximately four hours. Between London and Kitchener will take approximately two hours.
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I'm with the people who say the corridor improvements should come first. This is going to give trains in London a bad reputation that won't easily disappear. Liberals talked about high speed rail on this corridor, the Conservatives are delivering something that would be absolutely painful to use. Those seats are not designed for a four hour trip. Humans are not design for a four hour commute each way.
 
yup.

The good news is that travel time should be coming down quite quickly as the Guelph slow zone will start to make an impact very soon.

The corridor between Kitchener and London clearly needs a lot of work if it takes 2hrs to travel. That shouldn't take more than an hour or so to cover as there are so few stops.
 
innsertnamehere said:
yup.

The good news is that travel time should be coming down quite quickly as the Guelph slow zone will start to make an impact very soon.

The corridor between Kitchener and London clearly needs a lot of work if it takes 2hrs to travel. That shouldn't take more than an hour or so to cover as there are so few stops.
Click to expand...

Apparently the trip is supposed to take 4 hours, which is a bit brutal, and only two trips per day.

They should have started with one trip in either direction. I would think that a morning train from London to Toronto would be more useful after the VIA train leaves london.
 
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