picard102
Senior Member
Drama had less to do with the homeless and more to do with protestors.
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Mayor John Tory's Toronto
- Thread starter MetroMan
- Start date
C
christiesplits
Guest
The police response definitely looked heavy handed.
christiesplits
Senior Member
The intimidation by the police towards the
media in the two encampment clearouts this week are very disturbing. I hope there can be a charter case.
media in the two encampment clearouts this week are very disturbing. I hope there can be a charter case.
picard102
Senior Member
Looks like his knee is on his head, not his neck.
Maybe the media should stop trying to whip up a riot over clearing squatters out of public parks.
Maybe the media should stop trying to whip up a riot over clearing squatters out of public parks.
zang
Senior Member
"Squatter" is a legally definable term that is completely inapplicable to a public park. They have as much right to be there as anyone else.
Also:
"Toronto Police Chief Mark Saunders stressed on Thursday that members do not use or train in knee-to-neck restraining techniques, and that members are trained in knee to belt line"
Seems pretty far away from the belt line. Also, you ignored the part where the photographer of that picture was arrested for taking a photo of police using unlawful procedures in a public park.
picard102
Senior Member
zang
Senior Member
Actually, they can stay there all they want. The reasoning used to dismantle these camps is one of health and safety, not their right to be there.
Knee on neck. You can split hairs all you want, but the ear sits at the top of the neck, and the constable who used it has been trained to use other techniques.
The techniques police use in restraining a subject must be approved by law. Therefore, unapproved techniques (knee on head OR neck) are unlawful.
picard102
Senior Member
Section 608-13 Camping and lodging
Unless authorized by permit, no person shall dwell, camp or lodge in a park.
Section 608-14 Tents and structures
Unless authorized by permit, no person shall place, install, attach or erect a temporary or permanent tent, structure or shelter at, in or to a park.
It's not splitting hairs, it's a fact. The ear is not the neck. Which law are you citing?
zang
Senior Member
And it’s a 311 call, not a 911 call you make if someone is camping. It’s bylaw enforcement, not criminal. You get a fine, not a beating from a cop.
It’s as “criminal” an act in a park as hanging lights from a tree, or skateboarding on a tennis court.
Again, tearing up encampments has been under the reasoning of “health and safety” and not bylaw.
I invite you to ask someone to kindly pin you face down with their weighted knee on your ear and see how much it’s splitting hairs.
/https://www.thespec.com/content/dam/thespec/news/hamilton-region/2020/06/13/why-police-chokeholds-were-banned-in-ontario-nearly-30-years-ago/retired_sgt_micheal_csoke.jpg)
Why police chokeholds were banned in Ontario nearly 30 years ago
Retired Hamilton Sgt. Michael Csoke spent much of his career doing use-of-force training
The crap that was pulled was pure police brutality.
Northern Light
Superstar
I oppose excessive police force; but you keep including needless overreach in your arguments as of late.
Persons in the park who were 'camped' were all previously served with trespass notices.
Police, not by-law enforce the trespass to property act.
That's a provincial law, not a by-law.
It can be found here: https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90t21
From said law:
Giving Picard an assist is not a place you'll typically find me on this forum, LOL.
However, I insist people on all sides of every issue, argue with the facts only; irrespective of whether I agree with many or even all aspects of their position.
I agree that the police conduct shown was excessive and in contravention of permitted police conduct.
But the ear is not a part of your neck as a matter of basic anatomy; you won't get out of 1st year medical school arguing otherwise.
****
It is possible to make cogent arguments against excessive use of police force, and in favour of more affordable housing, and a more carrot-based housing policy (as opposed to a proverbial stick), without
wandering from the facts.
lenaitch
Senior Member
I have a suggestion: The next time the city orders that encampments on public property be removed, don't send the police; send staff from the Streets To Homes department. The only stipulation is the task be completed by end of day. Let's see how that goes.
DSC
Superstar
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I think that's what they do now - it is only after the Streets to Homes staff are unable to persuade people to move that 'eviction' and enforcement of the Trespass to Property Act becomes 'necessary'.
lenaitch
Senior Member
I get that; I'm just suggesting, more as a thought experiment, to leave the entire process, end-to-end, in the hands of city hall staffers. Apparently some believe that there is some secret sauce to get people to do what they defiantly don't want to. I'm not arguing individual allegations in recent events - I haven't followed - or other social issues surrounding homelessness.
picard102
Senior Member
From the videos it looks like the only people beaten were agitators and not the homeless.
Who do you think the bylaw officers need to call when their notices are repeatedly ignored?
The difference between my neck and my ear are pretty apparent.
Rufus8
Active Member
Moss Park should be fun, all the agitators will have had a good night's rest and be rarin' to go. As for the photographers, if you get in the cops way they will knock you back, so you know, don't get in the way. My guess is the cops know the shyte stirrers on sight now. I just want the park back. The contempt for your fellow citizens is wearing thin, we have all been in a tough time. For the campers, you need to get your shyte together and join the human race again. I still think the city should engage the campers to clean up the park instead of sending in other workers. It might may some of them feel better to close this chapter of their life and move on.