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VIA Rail

What is the plan for passenger rail to Peterborough? One of my kids is starting University at Trent and it would be a useful service if available from 2022-2025.

I'd wait for the RFP. That said, I don't anticipate a contract close till 2023. And they probably won't have shovels in the ground till 2024. Your kid might get really lucky and see some train service in the last few months of school. But I wouldn't hold out hopes for that.
 
Haven't yet got the official presser for this morning's announcement in London; but a Windsor version is now pegged for tomorrow.

 

LOL........this is a Del Duca presser!

From the presser:

efforts will also be undertaken to determine how passenger rail services might be improved to better service markets west of Toronto, including London and Windsor.

And:

1626882534513.png


*****

So, let's follow along everyone: A presser was held to announce efforts to explore and talk.

That's it.

No new infra investments, no new services, not so much as an EA or a timeline.....

 
I'd wait for the RFP. That said, I don't anticipate a contract close till 2023. And they probably won't have shovels in the ground till 2024. Your kid might get really lucky and see some train service in the last few months of school. But I wouldn't hold out hopes for that.

Do folks in Peterborough understand how the proposed service will impact their city?

If I am understanding it, the new VIA service will run on the tracks that go through a very idyllic residential neighbour on the east side of the river (East City), including a very awkward diagonal currently at-grade rail/road crossing on Maria Street. There are many at-grade crossings along the route and a pivot bridge over the Trent canal as well. This seems like it will have a huge impact on the city but I haven't read anything about how they plan to deal with all of this nor any reaction from local residents.
 
Somehow even lower than what I expected! Ha ha. Sad.

@Urban Sky was on point when he predicted no new services.
I still predicted that the study area scope for HFR would be expanded to include SWO, which means I'm still underwhelmed by this commitment to things which sound more like a description of what you would expect a Transport Minister to do unprompted...

Do folks in Peterborough understand how the proposed service will impact their city?

If I am understanding it, the new VIA service will run on the tracks that go through a very idyllic residential neighbour on the east side of the river (East City), including a very awkward diagonal currently at-grade rail/road crossing on Maria Street. There are many at-grade crossings along the route and a pivot bridge over the Trent canal as well. This seems like it will have a huge impact on the city but I haven't read anything about how they plan to deal with all of this nor any reaction from local residents.
Peterborough will have to get a bypass anyways once services go beyond hourly service. The question now is just whether any trains will ever stop in downtown again or if there will be just a greenfield HSR station which could just as well be called after the next farm...
 
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Peterborough will have to get a bypass anyways once services go beyond hourly service. The question now is just whether any trains will ever stop in downtown again or if there will be just a greenfield HSR station which could just as well be called after the next farm...

Do they have too? Could they just trench and double/triple track the bit through town or is it just easier (and cheaper) to bypass? Seems to me that building a suburban station is poor for transit integration.
 
Do they have too? Could they just trench and double/triple track the bit through town or is it just easier (and cheaper) to bypass? Seems to me that building a suburban station is poor for transit integration.
If you want to build anything beyond the absolutely minimum standard, you should directly build HSR ready (i.e. design speed 150+ mph) and that would be an entirely electrified and grade-separated double-tracked corridor, which is about the last thing I would want to see build through my city if I lived in Peterborough. Another reason to build a downtown rather than greenfield station is that it would facilitate rather than impede the creation of a Commuter Rail service in the distant future...
 
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Somehow even lower than what I expected! Ha ha. Sad.

@Urban Sky was on point when he predicted no new services.

I'm not really surprised. There will likely be an election soon and after having just announced commitment to HFR, they needed to tell south-western Ontario that they hadn't forgotten about them.
 
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If you want to build anything beyond the absolutely minimum standard, you should directly build HSR ready (i.e. design speed 150+ mph) and that would be an entirely electrified and grade-separated double-tracked corridor, which is about the last thing I would want to see build if Peterborough was my home city. Another reason to build a downtown rather than greenfield station is that it would facilitate rather than impede the creation of a Commuter Rail service in the distant future...

Maybe the Peterborough bypass could parallel Hwy 115 from about County Road No. 11 Airport Road in the west to Highway 7 in the east.
 
I'm not really surprised. There will likely be an election soon and after having just announced commitment to HFR, they needed to tell south-eastern Ontario that they hadn't forgotten about them.

South-western, but sure...........:)

Except.....I think saying 'we'll think, about talking about opportunities' doesn't actually get you any points with the public. They have such a wide range of small things they could have announced (up to very large ones) which would have said the same thing, but with a modicum of credibility.
 
If you want to build anything beyond the absolutely minimum standard, you should directly build HSR ready (i.e. design speed 150+ mph) and that would be an entirely electrified and grade-separated double-tracked corridor, which is about the last thing I would want to see build if Peterborough was my home city. Another reason to build a downtown rather than greenfield station is that it would facilitate rather than impede the creation of a Commuter Rail service in the distant future...

I may have understood you. I thought you were suggesting building a station outside the city to facilitate a bypass? To me a downtown station really should be the goal, unless the costs and geometry just blow it. I am curious to see if that rail corridor through Peterborough is actually suitable for further development.
 
I still predicted that the study area scope for HFR would be expanded to include SWO, which means I'm still underwhelmed by this commitment to things which sound more like a description of what you would expect a Transport Minister to do unprompted...

Peterborough will have to get a bypass anyways once services go beyond hourly service. The question now is just whether any trains will ever stop in downtown again or if there will be just a greenfield HSR station which could just as well be called after the next farm...

If you want to build anything beyond the absolutely minimum standard, you should directly build HSR ready (i.e. design speed 150+ mph) and that would be an entirely electrified and grade-separated double-tracked corridor, which is about the last thing I would want to see build if Peterborough was my home city. Another reason to build a downtown rather than greenfield station is that it would facilitate rather than impede the creation of a Commuter Rail service in the distant future...

With the obvious caveats that I haven't looked at the details and that I defer to your greater knowledge...........
I drew a line off the existing corridor south-east of PTBO and drew a roughly straight-line to rejoin the corridor to the east of PTBO where the rail corridor closes in on highway 7 again.
I was really quite surprised to find that the distances were almost identical in the two routes.

****

Obviously, the advantages to greenfield are there in terms of easier potential for grade-separations and curve elimination or mitigation, allowing for much higher line speeds.

A couple of further observations:

1) Downtown Ptbo has an inordinate amount of open land, which in theory would provide some 'options' for rail upgrades, albeit not to HSR standards.

2) However, Downtown Ptbo is also a giant floodplain, which makes grade-separations where either road or rail go below grade a near impossibility.
There's also a creek piped under much of the area as well.

3) The above, almost (not really) makes me want to muse about going elevated through the downtown.

4) Peterborough has a remarkable amount of dis-used railway ROW, some of it currently purposed as trail.

I make note of this, because one of those routes runs almost perfectly parallel to the existing live track into downtown, it would, in theory, have potential to function as a passing track, give or take any blowback from taking away the trail.

1626889830857.png


The red line punctuated by pins shows the alternate ROW, which I have then connected to the existing at Brown Line.

I selected that for a potential connection to avoid complex crossings of wetlands, or conflicts w/roads that have supplanted the ROW beyond that point.
 

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