Roads: Highway 401 Widening - Highway 8 to Highway 410 (MTO, U/C, Planned)

[stevensontransit]

#ThrowbackThursday

Photo of Highway 401 east of Creditview Road in 1978: https://www.thekingshighway.ca/PHOTOS/hwy401-1298_lg.jpg

 

[afransen]

The solution isn't to drag the expansion over a decade.

 

[Ward8]

Look at 401 in Toronto in rush hours. There is no single choke point that makes entire 401 crawl. It is simply over capacity.

I hate to be a pessimist. but There is no number of lanes that will make the 401 run smoothly. This is a permanently losing battle from here on out.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Having 6 lanes when you need 10 lanes means the entire 6 lane section will be a choke point.

Look at 401 in Toronto in rush hours. There is no single choke point that makes entire 401 crawl. It is simply over capacity.

Volumes drop as you leave the city however, so the further out that chokepoint is the less damage it does.

Everyone is saying the recently opened widening just pushes the chokepoint 3km further west, which it does. But it moves it past Mavis, meaning all the cars that get on and off at Mavis no longer have to travel through the choke point, reducing how bad the point is for traffic.

Once it moves out to Milton, it'll be past most of the high volume sections of the 401, and shouldn't be much of a choke point at all.

The problem is that volumes tend to constantly grow, and over time what is a fine spot to cut a lane becomes a bigger and bigger issue.

You can see this in Durham on the 401, when it loses the collector-express. In the 1990's when that area was last widened, most commuters came from Pickering. Ajax was much smaller and Whitby and Oshawa were more independent cities than they are now, also significantly smaller. Today Pickering is about the same size as it was 30 years ago, but Ajax, Whitby, and Oshawa are all much larger. Which means the lane losses through there create a choke point as most volume isn't getting off where the lanes end, unlike 30 years ago.

 

[Jasmine18]

what will be the solution of the 401 near Oshawa.

No way can that area stay 6 lanes forever.

 

[Wm Perkins Bull]

You could make the congested areas of the 401 a double decker freeway, and it'd still get congested, the demand is simply too great. Significantly increasing capacity will just cause the chokekepoints to move to on and off ramps, plus on nearby streets and roads.

what will be the solution of the 401 near Oshawa.

No way can that area stay 6 lanes forever.

Toll it and improve train service, free is too cheap for demand, and better train service would divert passenger traffic off.

 

[afransen]

There is some legitimate demand that needs to be served, that is for goods movement and services. But widening without disincentives for long distance commuting will just induce more demand as people move further and further out of town. Tolling has a role to play here. Widening isn't the only response.

Tolling should also have a big difference between peak periods and off-peak, unlike 407 which is expensive all the time. Some transit systems let you travel for half-price or less off-peak. Similar should apply for road pricing, since infrastructure is sized for peak.

 

[robmausser]

You could make the congested areas of the 401 a double decker freeway, and it'd still get congested, the demand is simply too great. Significantly increasing capacity will just cause the chokekepoints to move to on and off ramps, plus on nearby streets and roads.



Toll it and improve train service, free is too cheap for demand, and better train service would divert passenger traffic off.

As much as im in favor of tolls to subsidize transit, and pro-transit as the only way to take commuter demand off highways, I dont think the 401 should ever be tolled.

Toll the DVP, Gardiner, etc, but I think that since the 401 is the backbone of travel through Ontario, it should not be tolled.

Maybe toll the exit and on-ramps into and out of the city (or only the collectors) but keep through/express lanes free.

The real solution should have been building transit from the tolls on the 407...but...I digress...

 

[Wm Perkins Bull]

As much as im in favor of tolls to subsidize transit, and pro-transit as the only way to take commuter demand off highways, I dont think the 401 should ever be tolled.

Toll the DVP, Gardiner, etc, but I think that since the 401 is the backbone of travel through Ontario, it should not be tolled.

Maybe toll the exit and on-ramps into and out of the city (or only the collectors) but keep through/express lanes free.

The real solution should have been building transit from the tolls on the 407...but...I digress...

A toll could be configured in such a way to facilitate long distance travel, such as a $5 entry fee, and only a 5¢ per km charge. This would result in a relatively low cost per km for a long distance trip, but strongly disincentivize local, non-business travel.

 

[mtomo]

Just saw that the new westbound express lanes are now open. Including an awkward exit to Mavis and no real signage indicating that there’s express lanes now. Not sure how it works further because we got off at Mavis. Must have happened overnight because they weren’t in that configuration when I was driving home last night (401 was closed completely at Mavis actually).

There’s blue signage in the express lanes and green signage in the collector lanes.

Also if there is going to be a transfer from collector to express at Hurontario it’s going to be a huge weaving problem.

 

[drum118]

The solution isn't to drag the expansion over a decade.

How do you plan to pay for it to be fast Track??

 

[afransen]

We spent the money anyway. And the provincial government can borrow for next to nothing. Somehow we managed to fund the widening to Milton as one pop.

Governments should be trying to maximize value for money, not paying for capital projects out of current year revenue like an installment plan.

I'd like to see whatever analysis was done (if any) of whether it saved money to split it into multiple projects. I am very skeptical that it did--more likely it ended up costing more. It's like building a house a room at a time because you don't want to get a mortgage.

 

[drum118]

Sept 27
Not sure why there are larger barriers between lanes unless plans for future transfer connections or lane. What a waste of money filling them in and asphalting the top. No transfer lane from the express lane to the collectors east of the Credit River to 427 as well from the collectors to the express lanes.

Still a lot of work to be done and being done overnight.

Still have to get shots from Hurontario & Mavis overpass to verify a few things.

Shots are from McLaughlin Rd overpass.

 

[eltodesukane]

How do you plan to pay for it to be fast Track??

We have Billions $ available out of nowhere to deal with the corona virus,
surely we could have had Billions $ available for infrastructure projects which are really a productive investment into the future.
(I'm still waiting to use the Downtown Relief Line, whatever its current name. Build it Fast Track already!)

 

[Haljackey]

Great pics thanks for sharing!

Those extra barriers and asphalt islands are infill from a cancelled HOV-only interchange at McLaughlin Road. Plans fell through somehow I guess so that's why you see the road jog so much around this area of the highway despite it being straight.

I would have preferred to see some greenery or art rather than black asphalt fill in these unused areas, but I guess access and maintenance costs would be high, and the winter wouldn't be kind.