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Former President Donald Trump's United States of America

Democrats are the Tyrells from Game of Thrones while the GOP are the Lannisters.

Yes. This is all just entertainment to folks like you. Who gives a shit about people's healthcare or Climate Change, etc? As long as you get to own the Libs, right?

People who treat politics like sports or some other entertainment are disgusting.
 
Unless the Dems get a Senate supermajority the GOP will filibuster all this.

The filibuster is done. It will be scrapped at the start of the session. The Dems have already said that will be the consequence of pushing through a nominee. The real question is what comes next.

Biden needs to avoid any specifics. But after the election, he needs to be as ruthless as Mitch McConnell has been.
 
I heard the gop are ready to breakup Texas if the dmeocrats do that though ^

In a state about to flip and getting more blue everyday? Dare them to do it. It's a trivial threat. Their voters will have to approve it. And I can't see the average Texan supporting this. Not to mention, boundaries too would have to be approved. Andndf they do, make attempts to split California, New York, etc.

The GOP has acted in bad faith. And was rewarded. Letting in stand will only embolden. Backing off because of threats like this will only embolden them. And having a court now seen as illegitimate by more than half the country constantly overrule legislation will only grow dissatisfaction. The first step to healing is fighting the war that is already underway.
 
In a state about to flip and getting more blue everyday? Dare them to do it. It's a trivial threat. Their voters will have to approve it. And I can't see the average Texan supporting this. Not to mention, boundaries too would have to be approved. Andndf they do, make attempts to split California, New York, etc.

The GOP has acted in bad faith. And was rewarded. Letting in stand will only embolden. Backing off because of threats like this will only embolden them. And having a court now seen as illegitimate by more than half the country constantly overrule legislation will only grow dissatisfaction. The first step to healing is fighting the war that is already underway.

Well no they would cut texas to favour the red parts ofcourse so it be a disaster... so then dems cut up california, then next election gop cut up some red states...


My point is this war is escalating for 10 plus years and it has shown no sign of reaching an end and it seems to be not fixing any issues at all.


Your solution is on the premise Democrats control all 3 seats of power for decades after they made such changes. That is the only way it works and there is no guarantees of that.
 
Yes. This is all just entertainment to folks like you. Who gives a shit about people's healthcare or Climate Change, etc? As long as you get to own the Libs, right?

People who treat politics like sports or some other entertainment are disgusting.

I think you think this a joke with your solution

Break up states into 5, turn the USA where each president that comes in swears in 5 extra justices to own the previous guy.

That is a joke and would not solve anything apart from making a lot of money to CNN and Fox news, MSNBC and late night comedians to cover the political theatre.
 
Continual capitulation to the GOP isn't going to solve anything, either. Presidency, Senate, House and SCOTUS are all skewed in their favour by virtue of their control of the process (controlling more states for redistricting, and GOP bias for small states giving them upper hand in Senate and Presidency and thus SC). They are absolutely shameless about warping the system to favour their chances.
 
Continual capitulation to the GOP isn't going to solve anything, either. Presidency, Senate, House and SCOTUS are all skewed in their favour by virtue of their control of the process (controlling more states for redistricting, and GOP bias for small states giving them upper hand in Senate and Presidency and thus SC). They are absolutely shameless about warping the system to favour their chances.

Yeah but breaking up states to get more senate seats is not going to solve the issue either forever either. Its just making a political football and just escalating the war.

To me these are actual solutions:

Gerrymandering:
As i said the focus should be is stopping Gerrmandering so the congress is more a proper reflection of what people vote for.

This can be done by not doing the same thing as republicans that many democrats have done in response but once for all making it an independent process like it is here in canada.

Senate:

Now about the senate, the problem is that is a fundamental aspect of the USA that each state gets 2 votes. Democrats dominated the senate for decades in the past. Now the Gop dominates small states as the democrats have become a mostly urban-based party. That is a political choice the democrats have made then a flaw in the system.

That is no different if the liberals only got votes in cities and never won in a rural place.

Electoral college:

Now about the electoral college, I think awarding the electoral college by the amount of vote in each state vs winner for all is best. A strict popular vote is flawed as pretty much the election would be NYC and California and rural areas would have no say.


Senate:

Pretty much make the choice like the Canadian system for Supreme Court.
 
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Yes. This is all just entertainment to folks like you. Who gives a shit about people's healthcare or Climate Change, etc? As long as you get to own the Libs, right?

People who treat politics like sports or some other entertainment are disgusting.

Ok now, lets tone that down.

Jasmine has actually made a few constructive posts on this subject.

She made me look up Texas divisionism.

She made one remark she thought was cute............perhaps a bit ill placed.............but 'disgusting' is a bit much.
 
In a state about to flip and getting more blue everyday? Dare them to do it. It's a trivial threat. Their voters will have to approve it. And I can't see the average Texan supporting this. Not to mention, boundaries too would have to be approved. Andndf they do, make attempts to split California, New York, etc.

The GOP has acted in bad faith. And was rewarded. Letting in stand will only embolden. Backing off because of threats like this will only embolden them. And having a court now seen as illegitimate by more than half the country constantly overrule legislation will only grow dissatisfaction. The first step to healing is fighting the war that is already underway.

I posted on Texas divisionism above.

I don't know if there would be a serious attempt to go through with it; but it is actually provisioned for in their accession agreement, approved by Congress.

The wording suggests Congress has no say in the matter; but certainly, I would presume, Texas voters would.

This is the turn of phrase in question:

"Third -- New States of convenient size not exceeding four in number, in addition to said State of Texas and having sufficient population, may, hereafter by the consent of said State, be formed out of the territory thereof, which shall be entitled to admission under the provisions of the Federal Constitution; and such states as may be formed out of the territory lying south of thirty-six degrees thirty minutes north latitude, commonly known as the Missouri Compromise Line, shall be admitted into the Union, with or without slavery, as the people of each State, asking admission shall desire; and in such State or States as shall be formed out of said territory, north of said Missouri Compromise Line, slavery, or involuntary servitude (except for crime) shall be prohibited

By contrast other state states lack this power:

Article IV, Section 3, of The United States Constitution expressly prohibits any other state from dividing up and forming smaller states without Congressional approval. The relevant clause says "New states may be admitted by the Congress into this union; but no new states shall be formed or erected within the jurisdiction of any other state; nor any state be formed by the junction of two or more states, or parts of states, without the consent of the legislatures of the states concerned as well as of the Congress".[

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_divisionism
 
Ok now, lets tone that down.

Jasmine has actually made a few constructive posts on this subject.

She made me look up Texas divisionism.

She made one remark she thought was cute............perhaps a bit ill placed.............but 'disgusting' is a bit much.

The game of thrones analogy was that the Tyrells play the game but won't cross 'that red line" while the Lannister would do anything.

It to me is an allegory of democrats and republicans. Now my point is escalating the war won't work as the Republicans will always one-up the democrats.

Not to use another game of thrones line "but you have to break the wheel" which is to put in reforms that fix the system for all time rather than trying to rig the system to benefit yourself.

Now voter id laws, that is a real soltuion :)
 
I think you think this a joke with your solution

Break up states into 5, turn the USA where each president that comes in swears in 5 extra justices to own the previous guy.

That is a joke and would not solve anything apart from making a lot of money to CNN and Fox news, MSNBC and late night comedians to cover the political theatre.

Keithz was a bit harsh w/you. But calling other people's ideas a 'joke' is also inflammatory.

Lets keep the discussion civil please.
 
Continual capitulation to the GOP isn't going to solve anything, either. Presidency, Senate, House and SCOTUS are all skewed in their favour by virtue of their control of the process (controlling more states for redistricting, and GOP bias for small states giving them upper hand in Senate and Presidency and thus SC). They are absolutely shameless about warping the system to favour their chances.

I agree capitulation is not the answer.

But I also agree w/Jasmine below that a perpetual game of oneupmanship is equally unhelpful. The notion ought to be, if at all possible, to amend the constitution and/or legislation where applicable to remove political control of electoral districts (and/or require consensus) and to likewise move towards the Canadian model of a non-partisan court.

Yeah but breaking up states to get more senate seats is not going to solve the issue either forever either. Its just making a political football and just escalating the war.

To me these are actual solutions:

Gerrymandering:
As i said the focus should be is stopping Gerrmandering so the congress is more a proper reflection of what people vote for.

This can be done by not doing the same thing as republicans that many democrats have done in response but once for all making it an independent process like it is here in Canada.

Good idea, but requires a Constituional amendment. Currently in the U.S. the power to run elections including for Federal office lies solely with the States. 'Elections America' and 'Independent, Non-Partisan, Redistricting Commissions are absolutely the right way to go; but it would be an uphill slog to pass.

Though notably a couple of U.S. states have seen these pass in ballot initiatives at the state level.

Senate:

Now about the senate, the problem is that is a fundamental aspect of the USA that each state gets 2 votes. Democrats dominated the senate for decades in the past. Now the Gop dominates small states as the democrats have become a mostly urban-based party. That is a political choice the democrats have made then a flaw in the system.

That is no different if the liberals only got votes in cities and never won in a rural place.

We disagree on this one. I believe in majority-rule. I think its important to have some checks on that to protect minorities and counter the risk of tyranny, but I'm not inclined to Wyoming (the smallest state by population) to have it voters have 67x the influence of those in California (the largest state). There isn't anything remotely fair about that.

Personally, I like the idea of a unicameral legislature (no Senate). But additional checks and balances are needed if one does that.

But there are other solutions. Some of which are discussed here: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/01/heres-how-fix-senate/579172/

Electoral college:

Now about the electoral college, I think awarding the electoral college by the amount of vote in each state vs winner for all is best. A strict popular vote is flawed as pretty much the election would be NYC and California and rural areas would have no say.

Disagree here entirely. Direct election is direct election. Further, California and New York combined (40M and 20M) people respectively represent well less than 20% of the U.S. electorate.

****

As to the Supreme Court..........again, I would broadly prefer a more Canadian-style set up; though perhaps a tad less opaque.

But certainly there is a need to move to a formally non-partisan court.

However, in the U.S. this is made terribly challenging in that appointments to District and State Supreme Courts are also partisan political; while local judges in the U.S. are often elected (gag!)

To move to a justice system that aspires to impartiality would be a momentous change and again, surely a Constitutional one as well.
 
The issue is north, is the issue with the senate a fundamental flaw or that democrats cant win small states anymore as they did in the past.

🙃

The senate becoming more partisan is why the senate is now going much more to party lines then where senators could win in states that did not support their national party.

Like in the past not even like 15 years ago it was common for Republicans to have senate seats in blue states and democrats in deep red states.

Now it is so broken now it may have to be blown up i guess.
 
Yeah but breaking up states to get more senate seats is not going to solve the issue either forever either. Its just making a political football and just escalating the war.

To me these are actual solutions:

Gerrymandering:
As i said the focus should be is stopping Gerrmandering so the congress is more a proper reflection of what people vote for.

This can be done by not doing the same thing as republicans that many democrats have done in response but once for all making it an independent process like it is here in canada.

Senate:

Now about the senate, the problem is that is a fundamental aspect of the USA that each state gets 2 votes. Democrats dominated the senate for decades in the past. Now the Gop dominates small states as the democrats have become a mostly urban-based party. That is a political choice the democrats have made then a flaw in the system.

That is no different if the liberals only got votes in cities and never won in a rural place.

Electoral college:

Now about the electoral college, I think awarding the electoral college by the amount of vote in each state vs winner for all is best. A strict popular vote is flawed as pretty much the election would be NYC and California and rural areas would have no say.


Senate:

Pretty much make the choice like the Canadian system for Supreme Court.
If the point is to have checks and balances, the Senate ensures that less populated areas receive more representation (and they skew electoral college to get more influence too). I don't see why the Presidency needs to be skewed in favour of rural areas as well. There is a bias in House districts as well, as they tend to be based on out of date census counts which underrepresent growing cities. Shouldn't at least one leg of the stool be representative of the people and not the cornfields of Iowa?
 
Resolving the fundamental issues facing American democracy requires a consensus among the general public and having it manifested through bipartisan policy-making. When one party devolved into a cult of personality without even the slightest hint of restraint by norms and conventions, lofty talk about working together gets you nowhere. You don't play nice with those who refuses to play by the rules - that's a line in the sand that should have been drawn a long, long time ago.

AoD
 

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