Toronto Fleur Condos | 85.34m | 29s | Menkes | a—A

TheKingEast said:
"Exceptional" is a little much. aA has done a great job all things considered, but there was a time where they literally rehashed the same designs for every project. Yea, the developers were probably asking them for it but I don't think that warrants an "exceptional" grade. No doubt they influenced many firms over the years so good on them. I'd say lately they have done more interesting work. Still a premiere firm. I think HP has surpassed them.
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It's difficult to say 'best' as that evaluation is subjective, but I've long advocated for aA as the City's superior firm. When taken as an oeuvre, there are only really two 'bad' buildings in aA's portfolio: Form and Alter, both of which, as @condovo rightly pointed out, are for the same aesthetically-challenged client. There are more singular buildings in HPA's portfolio that I would say didn't work out: 2 St. Thomas, Ivory, Grand Palace, The Code, Novus, etc.

Another issue with a direct comparison is that HPA is a far more typologically diverse office - I'm sure Peter et al would love to do all sorts of buildings, but since Adrian passed away, pretty much all of their (very good) institutional work seems to have dried up (Brock's Cairns Complex is the only one that comes to mind).

Trust me, between the two of them, for firms of their size, they're either first or second, depending on who you like more. Given the proclivity of different client groups, I just happen to think aA is the more consistently superior office.
 
condovo said:
East FiftyFive is also exceptional and St. Lawrence Condos is shaping up really well so far too, to say nothing of a whole pile of great projects by this firm over the years, ex., Pier 27, MOZO, the Harbour Plaza towers, 383 Sorauren, King Charlotte, District Lofts, Twenty Niagara, X Condos, Sixty Colbourne and many more. After a while, the exceptional projects are no longer the exceptions.
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This is a good list, to which I'd also add Brant Park, Vox (maybe), and the Terrence Donnelly Centre (though I can't recall if they were design arch or just AoR on the latter). And 1414 Bayview, and Junction Point look like they could be excellent if they're well executed (which I expect they will be given the track record of this designer/developer combo).

ProjectEnd said:
It's difficult to say 'best' as that evaluation is subjective, but I've long advocated for aA as the City's superior firm. When taken as an oeuvre, there are only really two 'bad' buildings in aA's portfolio: Form and Alter, both of which, as @condovo rightly pointed out, are for the same aesthetically-challenged client. There are more singular buildings in HPA's portfolio that I would say didn't work out: 2 St. Thomas, Ivory, Grand Palace, The Code, Novus, etc.
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This is well said; without exception every firm has misses, and it's most telling when they occur for the same client(s); I also think that the Redpath buildings and Art Shoppe are weak, but similarly, there, both Freed.
 
ADRM said:
This is a good list, to which I'd also add Brant Park, Vox (maybe), and the Terrence Donnelly Centre (though I can't recall if they were design arch or just AoR on the latter). And 1414 Bayview, and Junction Point look like they could be excellent if they're well executed (which I expect they will be given the track record of this designer/developer combo).


This is well said; without exception every firm has misses, and it's most telling when they occur for the same client(s); I also think that the Redpath buildings and Art Shoppe are weak, but similarly, there, both Freed.
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They were AoR there, Behnisch were the design arch. I'm not sure how collaborative the relationship was - I believe that commission also came out of Adrian's close relationship with the U of T.
 
ProjectEnd said:
It's difficult to say 'best' as that evaluation is subjective, but I've long advocated for aA as the City's superior firm. When taken as an oeuvre, there are only really two 'bad' buildings in aA's portfolio: Form and Alter, both of which, as @condovo rightly pointed out, are for the same aesthetically-challenged client. There are more singular buildings in HPA's portfolio that I would say didn't work out: 2 St. Thomas, Ivory, Grand Palace, The Code, Novus, etc.

Another issue with a direct comparison is that HPA is a far more typologically diverse office - I'm sure Peter et al would love to do all sorts of buildings, but since Adrian passed away, pretty much all of their (very good) institutional work seems to have dried up (Brock's Cairns Complex is the only one that comes to mind).

Trust me, between the two of them, for firms of their size, they're either first or second, depending on who you like more. Given the proclivity of different client groups, I just happen to think aA is the more consistently superior office.
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I don't blame aA for Form...the design is nice, it's Tridel who messed it up IMO. Alter I just dislike the design...just everything about it is terrible. With regard to Novus and Ivory, great designs but the developers cheaped out. I think there's just a higher degree of difficulty designing a non-glass box. Not to take anything away from aA but how many firms copied the same design and were successful? The last few years aA has started doing some interesting stuff.

2 St Thomas for sure a dud.
 
condovo said:
East FiftyFive is also exceptional and St. Lawrence Condos is shaping up really well so far too, to say nothing of a whole pile of great projects by this firm over the years, ex., Pier 27, MOZO, the Harbour Plaza towers, 383 Sorauren, King Charlotte, District Lofts, Twenty Niagara, X Condos, Sixty Colbourne and many more. After a while, the exceptional projects are no longer the exceptions.
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Perhaps I was over using the word "exceptional" here. As I was making an opinion on the matter...and one that may not of been very informed.

Thanks for sharing that though. /bows
 
Today

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My god, that podium is beautiful. Set against black(ish) tower, it's a prominent but reserved dose of modernism done right. Kudos to AA and Menkes for seeing the execution through here.
 
I still don’t quite understand how they’re able to form floors without a crane. How do they move the forming templates from the formed level up? Blows my mind.
 
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