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The Climate Change Thread

Jasmine18 said:
I know many young males who are not incels or neckbeards listen to jordan Peterson a lot. I think it's because Peterson offers a different perspective on established norms and that is a novelty to many. Additionally he looks that what does it mean to be a man in the modern world and frankly hardly any intellectual effort is put in this field currently.
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I don't really want to get into a long discussion in a climate change thread about the various reasons for this being the case, but I think you hit the nail on the head on why Peterson resonates with young males generally. There are a lot of new cultural norms and changes being introduced today in society and there is a large demographic of young males who are growing up with the messaging that not only are they an ineffective tool for the modern world, but they are also at fault for many of it's problems, which is frankly a lot to put on a young adult's shoulders. Consequently, there are people (disproportionately young and male) increasingly being left behind (as displayed by decrease enrollment in post-secondary, increased substance abuse, and suicide rates) and actively dismissed by the messaging of society's reformers (not the desired target demographic). Peterson offers a message of self-empowerment and self-purpose that any young adult, boy or girl, probably should be receiving sometime in their late teens.

He also of course dips his toes into politics alot, which is a rather different discussion.
 
Thanks for making that interesting, people. ?

Look, anyone who has at all paid any attention to what he's actually about would know that equating him with the likes of Rex Murphy, Ezra Levant, and Faith Goldy is just ridiculous.

I see you all agree with me. Carry on.

PS: His "faith" as you put it, @NorthernLight is sort of weird....I'm not sure he takes himself all too seriously in that regard but is instead stuck with defending that particular characteristic out of fear of looking foolish. It's just too inconsistent with his work as a psychologist and even as a self-help guru. It's weird af.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure the hot air blowing out of Ezra Levant is responsible for at least 5% of Canada's GHG emissions, getting back on topic...sort of. :p
 
I included Jordan Peterson's name with the other right wing nitwits because of his views on climate change.
(from Wikipedia):

"Peterson doubts the scientific consensus on climate change. Peterson has said he is “very skeptical of the models that are used to predict climate change”, He has also said, “You can’t trust the data because too much ideology is involved”. In a 2018 Cambridge Union address, Peterson said that climate change will not unite anyone, that focusing on climate change is “low-resolution thinking”, and there are other more important issues in the world. "

Whatever the Great Man thinks about the gender pay gap or other issues of the day isn't really relevant to this thread. For an intellectual figure of his stature to publicly state his skepticism of climate science and empirical evidence is both ironic and irresponsible. The esteem for which he is held by his followers actually makes his pronouncements much more dangerous than if they dribbled out of the orifice of someone with little or no credibility.

Ask an Australian or the millions of climate refugees around the world if there is a bigger issue facing humanity. Better yet, give the microphone to J Peterson and have him ask them.
 
I always find that there are two Peterson's one is usually a level-headed reasonable person who mostly talks from the centre and is an intellectual...

Then you have Peterson who sometimes makes very simplistic argument and is a provocateur and now has sold over 3 million books and and is likely one of the most famous canadian thinkers of recent times.
 
Irishmonk said:
I included Jordan Peterson's name with the other right wing nitwits because of his views on climate change.
(from Wikipedia):

"Peterson doubts the scientific consensus on climate change. Peterson has said he is “very skeptical of the models that are used to predict climate change”, He has also said, “You can’t trust the data because too much ideology is involved”. In a 2018 Cambridge Union address, Peterson said that climate change will not unite anyone, that focusing on climate change is “low-resolution thinking”, and there are other more important issues in the world. "

Whatever the Great Man thinks about the gender pay gap or other issues of the day isn't really relevant to this thread. For an intellectual figure of his stature to publicly state his skepticism of climate science and empirical evidence is both ironic and irresponsible. The esteem for which he is held by his followers actually makes his pronouncements much more dangerous than if they dribbled out of the orifice of someone with little or no credibility.

Ask an Australian or the millions of climate refugees around the world if there is a bigger issue facing humanity. Better yet, give the microphone to J Peterson and have him ask them.
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He'd probably tell them to "clean their rooms" or whatever.

An actually perfectly reasonable explanation on your part.

I had completely forgotten about his stance on this (though he's not wrong in saying that too much ideology is involved, though that doesn't mean you can't trust the data). Nice one.

I retract saying you're lost, though the comparison with Levant, Murphy, and Goldy is still not on. He's at least useful as a clinical psychologist and has some very decent things to say about self-improvement that has inspired countless numbers of people to better their lives and improve their mental health (not including me...I don't read his work and have my own self-improvement technique). Those other three just contribute to climate change with all their hot air and not to society through usefulness.
 
Jasmine18 said:
Then you have Peterson who sometimes makes very simplistic argument and is a provocateur and now has sold over 3 million books and and is likely one of the most famous canadian thinkers of recent times.
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Wait, why are his book sales not included with your first version of the dude? hahaha.....his book sales aren't predicated on his simplistic arguments or any provocations...they're self-improvement books that have, by all accounts, been rather helpful for a large number of people suffering from some serious life failures and mental health issues.
He should be commended for that. He's done a lot more for mental health in this country than any of our governments have which is pathetic if you think about it.
 
SunriseChampion said:
He'd probably tell them to "clean their rooms" or whatever.

An actually perfectly reasonable explanation on your part.

I had completely forgotten about his stance on this (though he's not wrong in saying that too much ideology is involved, though that doesn't mean you can't trust the data). Nice one.

I retract saying you're lost, though the comparison with Levant, Murphy, and Goldy is still not on. He's at least useful as a clinical psychologist and has some very decent things to say about self-improvement that has inspired countless numbers of people to better their lives and improve their mental health (not including me...I don't read his work and have my own self-improvement technique). Those other three just contribute to climate change with all their hot air and not to society through usefulness.
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No worries--I'm likely lost in countless ways not apparent here. I have to confess I haven't read his books--just watched a number of utube vids. Something about him just annoys me--maybe his measured certainty and steadfastness of his positions in the face of all evidence and reason. And then the endless comments from his followers who seem to regard him as a veritable prophet from on high. I'll try to hold off calling him a self interested charlatan before delving a bit more into his literary output. Oh yeah, this thread's about climate change....

Well, it's bad, really, really bad. 2019 has now officially been declared the second hottest year since modern records have been kept--it's just shy of the massively El Nino influenced 2016. The next serious El Nino could push the global average air temperature to 1.5 C above the baseline--the number from which, apparently, there is no return. The ocean temperature, meanwhile, is the hottest it's been on record and it climbs incrementally every year. The game is pretty much over and it's happened way sooner then just about anybody thought.
 
Irishmonk said:
Something about him just annoys me...
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It's his voice, isn't it? ?

Well, it's bad, really, really bad. 2019 has now officially been declared the second hottest year since modern records have been kept--it's just shy of the massively El Nino influenced 2016. The next serious El Nino could push the global average air temperature to 1.5 C above the baseline--the number from which, apparently, there is no return. The ocean temperature, meanwhile, is the hottest it's been on record and it climbs incrementally every year. The game is pretty much over and it's happened way sooner then just about anybody thought.
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Yeah, it seems to be accelerating which has sort of been explained by the nature of the feedback loop. The lack of urgency on the part of even governments, never mind individual people, is even more alarming than the symptoms themselves...though, I suppose, as you say, that the game is already over so we've gone from denial to lack of urgency because there's nothing more that can be done. We missed the whole remediation phase.

Well, we have always been a rather brutal and murderous species so I suppose it shouldn't come as any surprise that we've let our inherent psychology cause us to be detrimental to our own well-being instead of massaging it into something better.

Neuroplasticity is a thing, but it doesn't happen in a vacuum.
 
Irishmonk said:
Well, it's bad, really, really bad. 2019 has now officially been declared the second hottest year since modern records have been kept--it's just shy of the massively El Nino influenced 2016. The next serious El Nino could push the global average air temperature to 1.5 C above the baseline--the number from which, apparently, there is no return. The ocean temperature, meanwhile, is the hottest it's been on record and it climbs incrementally every year. The game is pretty much over and it's happened way sooner then just about anybody thought.
Click to expand...
If that's the case, then certain ice shelves in Greenland and Antarctica are quite likely to collapse in the near future, which would be irreversible and feed the feedback loop some more.

On the topic of the oceans, I feel sometimes ocean temperature gets most of the attention, but oceanic acidification is just as much or even larger of a problem, and the response to that is even more muted than climate change.
 
WislaHD said:
If that's the case, then certain ice shelves in Greenland and Antarctica are quite likely to collapse in the near future, which would be irreversible and feed the feedback loop some more.

On the topic of the oceans, I feel sometimes ocean temperature gets most of the attention, but oceanic acidification is just as much or even larger of a problem, and the response to that is even more muted than climate change.
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Collapse of West Antarctic is likely inevitable - though it will may take some time. There are also other feedback loops that could be just as devastating - thawing of the permafrost releasing sequestered CH4; collapse of the arctic sea ice, etc.

Oceanic acidification is the direct result of increasing atmospheric CO2 concentration - you can't tackle it without emissions control.

AoD
 
WislaHD said:
If that's the case, then certain ice shelves in Greenland and Antarctica are quite likely to collapse in the near future, which would be irreversible and feed the feedback loop some more.

On the topic of the oceans, I feel sometimes ocean temperature gets most of the attention, but oceanic acidification is just as much or even larger of a problem, and the response to that is even more muted than climate change.
Click to expand...

AlvinofDiaspar said:
Collapse of West Antarctic is likely inevitable - though it will may take some time. There are also other feedback loops that could be just as devastating - thawing of the permafrost releasing sequestered CH4; collapse of the arctic sea ice, etc.

Oceanic acidification is the direct result of increasing atmospheric CO2 concentration - you can't tackle it without emissions control.

AoD
Click to expand...

Thank you to you both! Scientific literacy is such a beautiful thing! A small number of posters aside, this is a well-moderated forum, with lots of intelligent and knowledgeable posters. But its still not that often you get to see this breadth and depth of well-informed views.
 
My feeling is we're past the tipping point. The world is warming, whatever the reasons. This century needs to be about how humanity adapted to its new reality, not about how we tried to return to prior conditions. There's no stopping the warming train, we may only slow it down.

So, we need to adapt. Australia will need to get energy to desalinate sea water, likely through some nuclear but also lots of solar. Those nations and people with wealth and ability will need to protect or depopulate their coastal zones. Those nations and people who cannot adapt, like Micronesia, will go the way of Atlantis. Same goes for the animals and plants we live with and depend on, adapt or perish.
 
Admiral Beez said:
My feeling is we're past the tipping point. The world is warming, whatever the reasons. This century needs to be about how humanity adapted to its new reality, not about how we tried to return to prior conditions. There's no stopping the warming train, we may only slow it down.

So, we need to adapt. Australia will need to get energy to desalinate sea water, likely through some nuclear but also lots of solar. Those nations and people with wealth and ability will need to protect or depopulate their coastal zones. Those nations and people who cannot adapt, like Micronesia, will go the way of Atlantis. Same goes for the animals and plants we live with and depend on, adapt or perish.
Click to expand...

What you are talking about is adaptation to changes that are coming regardless - it doesn't deal with the growing (and possibility accelerating) emissions rate which will make things even more difficult to adapt. Accepting the need for adaption is not a get-out-of-jail card for denying the need to run down GHG emissions.

And if the permafrost melts en masse we'd be F*.

AoD
 
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