Hamilton Hamilton Line B LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

Fervid Corona said:
Post LRT task force to consider highway projects: Mulroney’s office
https://www.thespec.com/news-story/...-consider-highway-projects-mulroney-s-office/
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I don't believe it. Lower City residents pay for the Lincoln Alexander and Red Hill Valley freeways, even if they don't use it.

Though I had mixed feelings about the Hamilton LRT and the city's commitment to transit, this feels like a takeover of the city by the old rural townships (Flamborough, Glanbrook).
 
smallspy said:
Much of the reason why a lot of people are complaining about the LRT is because they now have a transfer where they didn't. Phase 2 is going to fix this for a majority of riders in Ottawa by getting rid of many of those transfers.

In light of that, I can't see how it will make things worse.

Dan
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If the trains remain unreliable and we saw a perfect example which lasted 6 hours on New Years eve, adding more trains for Phase 2 will make things worse. The reliability problem must be solved or LRT will be massive failure. One broken down train blocks the whole system too often whereas it used to be easy to get around a broken down bus. Regardless of Phase 2 or even 3, 90% of Ottawa's population will still not be within walking distance of the Confederation Line. The last mile problem is so well known with rail transit and Phase 1 has demonstrated that problems with both LRT and the connecting bus system can create a tremendous mess. I can tell you that the transit system is even less attractive to me as one of the 90%+ because transfers do not work reliably and the user has to transfer too often especially in off-peak hours. Even the transfer stations are poorly designed. It will be interesting to see ridership figures when they are published.
 
gibsonm said:
Wow, Jane Jacobs would be turning in her grave. How backwards are these people to dilute rapid transit funding by bringing highways onto the table. So sad the total lack of awareness of good urban planning. Hamilton is already a city of highways. Cars already roar down the one way streets downtown as though they’re on expressways. Is it still the 1970’s? I’m sure Robert Moses would be proud. With some decent boulevards, light standards, tree planting, street furniture, and a rapid transit line (LRT), streets like King, Main, and James could be very nice places to walk and spend time on rather than pass through on the way to somewhere else. I’d love to see some of these one way streets restored to two-way, but there aren’t enough Hamilton councillors or Hamilton MPP’s who would see the value of such moves — even though they’re made in every other successful city!
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We are living Jane Jacobs legacy.
One where any complaint or concern about any project is treated highly importantly by the public officials, leading to endless discussions and compromises until the other side begins to complain, with an end result of everything being cancelled.
 
I laugh when I see plans to replace urban transit spending in Hamilton with roads designed to service the exurbs and increasing sprawl. Of course, all designed to support the Conservative voter base. We are seeing both the federal and provincial Conservatives making the same mistake by not adopting a platform that is not attractive to urban Ontario while allowing the greater Toronto area, the economic engine of Canada, to increasingly choke on traffic.
 
Hamilton already has multiple quasi-expressways like Burlington Street and the three-lane one way network downtown. Half of these roads have low traffic volumes. What do people think will bring more residents, businesses, and tax revenue to Hamilton? More highways? The Red Hill is almost an unnecessary expressway and parts of the Lincoln Alexander feel barren. How about improving the sidewalk experience downtown instead of making pedestrians feel like they’re dodging land mines every time they cross the street?!
 
gibsonm said:
Hamilton already has multiple quasi-expressways like Burlington Street and the three-lane one way network downtown. Half of these roads have low traffic volumes. What do people think will bring more residents, businesses, and tax revenue to Hamilton?
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If Hamilton wants to be a big city, it needs big city infrastructure... like Toronto's Gardiner Expressway. How else can it pretend to be a big city if it doesn't have something to argue about tearing down for the next 50 years?
 
Maybe the Hamilton City Council should be talking directly with the federal government to see if the Hamilton LRT could be built with funding from the two governments. Maybe talk with the Ontario New Democratic Party, the Ontario Liberal Party, and the Green Party of Ontario separately from the (co-called) Progressive Conservative Party of Ontario, for their support as well, since it will be two more years until the next election. They can still plan and do utility construction in the meantime.
 
JasonParis said:
I think it stands to reason that all other major ON political parties will run on reversing the LRT decision. So indeed, some work can be done in the meantime. Although, there are also two years for that to be scuttled.
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If they have to replace lead water pipes, upgrade the sewers, etc., then they might as well relocate them at the same time.
 
JasonParis said:
I think it stands to reason that all other major ON political parties will run on reversing the LRT decision. So indeed, some work can be done in the meantime. Although, there are also two years for that to be scuttled.
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Likely right, but its a whole lot of wasted money in the mean time.

Whatever the PC government plans to fund will be hard to pull back as well.

It's the classic game of politics of "my idea - no, my idea" where consultants get paid hundreds of millions of dollars to constantly draw up plans, then just when they approach construction, the plans get ripped up and new ones are drawn, meanwhile nothing ever happens.

Look at Scarborough for a prime example. We had an LRT, we had a 3 stop subway, we had a 1 stop subway, and now we are back to the drawing board again for a 3 stop subway, again. All the while well over a decade has passed while 2 completely different projects have been scuttled literally months from construction start to redesign. At a certian point one just has to wonder if the "improvements" each additional scheme brings is worth the delay.
 
innsertnamehere said:
Likely right, but its a whole lot of wasted money in the mean time.

Whatever the PC government plans to fund will be hard to pull back as well.

It's the classic game of politics of "my idea - no, my idea" where consultants get paid hundreds of millions of dollars to constantly draw up plans, then just when they approach construction, the plans get ripped up and new ones are drawn, meanwhile nothing ever happens.

Look at Scarborough for a prime example. We had an LRT, we had a 3 stop subway, we had a 1 stop subway, and now we are back to the drawing board again for a 3 stop subway, again. All the while well over a decade has passed while 2 completely different projects have been scuttled literally months from construction start to redesign. At a certian point one just has to wonder if the "improvements" each additional scheme brings is worth the delay.
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What we are seeing in Hamilton is a delay tactic. The PCs don't want to spend the money on a project that was close to shovel ready. They have other spending priorities. So they announce another study for alternatives. None of the alternatives will be ready for construction for years and if there is another change of governments, we may see things do a full circle again, just like Scarborough. Meanwhile, the consultants get rich while the public gets no value for their tax dollars.
 
lrt's friend said:
If the trains remain unreliable and we saw a perfect example which lasted 6 hours on New Years eve, adding more trains for Phase 2 will make things worse. The reliability problem must be solved or LRT will be massive failure. One broken down train blocks the whole system too often whereas it used to be easy to get around a broken down bus. Regardless of Phase 2 or even 3, 90% of Ottawa's population will still not be within walking distance of the Confederation Line. The last mile problem is so well known with rail transit and Phase 1 has demonstrated that problems with both LRT and the connecting bus system can create a tremendous mess. I can tell you that the transit system is even less attractive to me as one of the 90%+ because transfers do not work reliably and the user has to transfer too often especially in off-peak hours. Even the transfer stations are poorly designed. It will be interesting to see ridership figures when they are published.
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Vehicle reliability will eventually go up, there are always going to be teething issues when a new rolling stock model is introduced (Though Ottawa has had some really serious problems).

Toronto does their connecting bus system insanely well, and there's no reason Ottawa can't replicate it, at least during peak times. They have the ridership to support it.

One question though: in terms of the TTC board numbers, LRV reliability, whether it's a flexity or CLRV, has always been at least 1/20th that of the subway. I imagine a lot of that has to do with grade separation and teething/age issues, but even then, these numbers suggest additional complexity with LRVs. Is it possible that LRVs, especially low floor LRVs are just more unreliable than high floor rolling stock?
 
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