Mississauga Wesley Tower at Daniels City Centre | ?m | 43s | Daniels | Rafael + Bigauskas
- Thread starter Jasonzed
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WislaHD
Superstar
Yonge&Eglinton was always urban though, even prior to the condo onslaught. It is erroneous to compare the two in terms of urban form, street grid, setbacks from street, mobility mode share, type and mixture of uses, and midday demographics. They are completely different contexts.
Humber Bay Shores might be a more adequate comparison?
Yonge and Eglinton has not always been urban: at one point is was all forest, and it's been on a long progression even since. What it's turning into now is little different from what the area west of Square One is becoming. If you think that the street grid is problematic near Square One, what does that mean for the longer blocks at Yonge & Eglinton? It means that the City of Toronto is trying to get more mid-block connections between the east-west streets so that someday, if they are lucky, the blocks will be as easily navigated through by pedestrians as they are at MCC, but it is going to take a while.
Here are Google Maps snippets at the same scale to show you that your perceptions of block sizes at the two sites are essentially backwards:
The other differences like sidewalk setbacks are far less pronounced than you believe as well, the biggest difference between the two being that Burnhamthorpe is wider than Eglinton and Confederation is wider than Yonge, both to the detriment of walkability at MCC, but MCC's other streets are not hugely different. MCC has a College Campus, Yonge and Eg does not. Yonge and Eg has more rapid transit, MCC is getting some rapid transit. Both have libraries within walking distance from thousands of condo dwellers, MCC's is much better. MCC has an excellent YMCA within walking distance of thousands of condo dwellers. MCC dwellers who work at City Hall can walk to work. MCC has a major performing arts venue. Both Yonge and Eg and MCC have tons of places that locals can walk to for shopping, dining, going to the cinema, while Yonge and Eg has more non-chain options. Until such time as First Capital's plans are in place at Humber Bay Shores and it gets better transit, more jobs, more commercial, better community facilities, and more walkability overall, no, it's the one that's not a fair comparison.
So, while MCC outshines Y&E in some urban attributes and Y&E is better in others, what's virtually the same, and what's more pronounced than the other attributes I've gone through, is the building typology: both are dominated by point towers in the same height range rising above podiums in the same height range: they are both vertical gated communities. If you don't think that makes Yonge and Eglinton virtually the same as what's going on at MCC, all you really have is a prejudice.
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Jasonzed
Senior Member
Jasonzed
Senior Member
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Jasonzed
Senior Member
Jasonzed
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Jasonzed
Senior Member
WislaHD
Superstar
Do you want to try that argument again?
Maybe I do have prejudice for growing up in Yonge & Eglinton area, but I can say for certainty that the neighbourhood is not post-war suburban in any way, shape, or form, and that should be self-evident just by looking at the images above. Y+E is a predominantly urban residential neighbourhood, and wouldn't look out of place in downtown Toronto (I am serious, try comparing Y+E image above to this zoomed-out scale of the Annex-Yorkville). MCC is predominantly parking lot and high-rise region bisected by large arterial ROW everywhere you look.
Yes, there are a few mega-blocks at Y+E, but they are residential and intimate in scale, and are more comparable to the mega-blocks of Parkdale's residential neighbourhood than the suburban mega-blocks of MCC. If you want a comparison for MCC in inner-city Toronto, then look no further than Thorncliffe and Flemingdon Park. Most of the already-existing stock in MCC follows the same built pattern, especially east of Hurontario. Thankfully, most of the recent stuff happening around Confederation Pkwy is following a more urban built pattern.
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I am talking specifically about the blocks close to the Wesley Tower, an area that is densifying rapidly, and which is quite out-of-date in those wide-area aerial views you're using. The fact remains that block sizes to the northeast of Yonge and Eglinton are larger than the ones to the west of Square One. Mississauga is trying to build something walkable here out of what were fields just a couple of decades ago. Yonge & Eg has a huge head start, and it's fun, but it's not Intimate, and it's not a night-and-day difference over what they're working to achieve in Mississauga. Get over your local bias!
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WislaHD
Superstar
Maybe it is a local bias, or maybe it is simple measurements. Streets enclosing the 'mega-blocks' of Y+E like Roehampton and Broadway are 8.5m right-of-way. The streets in Mississauga (like City Centre Dr and Living Arts Dr) are a whopping 18m right-of-way.
The purpose of the satellite views is to show that not everything is what it seems from a 2D map. Even if the blocks are larger at Y+E, they are the same size as blocks you would find in Parkdale or High Park, and I doubt either of those places are about to be compared to MCC in your estimations. Built form and urban context matters.
If MCC succeeds in creating a walkable urban environment, it would look more like City Place than it would look like a pre-war neighbourhood like North Toronto.
The purpose of the satellite views is to show that not everything is what it seems from a 2D map. Even if the blocks are larger at Y+E, they are the same size as blocks you would find in Parkdale or High Park, and I doubt either of those places are about to be compared to MCC in your estimations. Built form and urban context matters.
If MCC succeeds in creating a walkable urban environment, it would look more like City Place than it would look like a pre-war neighbourhood like North Toronto.
someMidTowner
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
One thing not being mentioned here is how street width makes things feel more suburban.
Just going to leave this here:
I could've made it seem even more ridiculous by measuring diagonally across major intersections.
Just going to leave this here:
I could've made it seem even more ridiculous by measuring diagonally across major intersections.
Jasonzed
Senior Member
Jasonzed
Senior Member
The MCC city streets will be addressed in time.
