Roads: Six Points Interchange Reconfiguration (City of Toronto, UC)

[crs1026]

^Tory has gone on record that this area will be a bastion of the affordable housing strategy. I’m quite supportive that we need such a strategy, but pushing too hard on any one locale to deliver it does not bode well either for the quality of that development or for its ability to attract a range of businesses and services that create an attractive street.
The community needs to watch this one very carefully.

- Paul

 

[Edllguy]

Thought I would post this rendering for something to look forward to when we can ride our bikes here when completed.

 

[Tim MacDonald]

So let me guess. When the utility corridor needs to be dug up, two sets of road users can be inconvenienced. First, the bike lane gets torn up. Next, the right vehicle lane is hosed as well since the heavy equuipment/service trucks need a place to park. What's worse is that after the job is done, the cycle track will be crap.

 

[darth_freeman]

Considering there's a lot of traffic here, you can't honestly be surprised that the streets are wide (considering they're main thoroughfares) and that the corners are rounded. And square corners are not something they do here in any case.

The final design is more squared than the temporary configuration currently in place. Also, even though the curve is 6 lanes wide, due to the tight radius and posted speed limit of 40 traffic is driving fairly slow. Not to mention, all of the additional traffic signals will limit speeding.

 

[W. K. Lis]

The final design is more squared than the temporary configuration currently in place. Also, even though the curve is 6 lanes wide, due to the tight radius and posted speed limit of 40 traffic is driving fairly slow. Not to mention, all of the additional traffic signals will limit speeding.

View attachment 182223

Personally, the corners of (former) Highway 5 from Bloor Street West to and from Dundas Street West will likely have wide corners.

(Should number it Regional or City Road 5 within Toronto. Yonge Street should be Regional or City Road 11.)

 

[drum118]

April 17
More up on site

With the land graded east of Kipling to the new Bloor/Dundas intersection, its ready to have the new Bloor Rd built on it. You can also see how level its is with the existing one before dropping down to meet the current Kipling intersection.

Looking at how the grading is done next to Kipling on the east side, not sure now how they going to move the Kipling traffic to allow existing road to be raise. I expect Bloor will be close and force traffic to use Auckland and Dundas while Kipling is rebuilt along with the new Bloor/Kipling intersection.

Its possible a temporary 2 lane road is built on the new level land east of Kipling, but will have major impact at Dundas at this time.Can use the excess land on the west side to help fill in the existing valley, with more being moved from the stock pile to the east.

There was a female worker at Dundas/Bloor with a clip board writing things or numbers down and no idea what it was for. No safety boots.

Setup the westbound to a single lane now with pylons, but some cars were making left turns out of the right turning lanes anyway.

 

[W. K. Lis]

April 17
More up on site

...
There was a female worker at Dundas/Bloor with a clip board writing things or numbers down and no idea what it was for. No safety boots.
...

They do make safety sneakers. With steel toes and midsoles. For men and women.

 

[drum118]

They do make safety sneakers. With steel toes and midsoles. For men and women.

Just learn something new. Been over a decade since I bought my last set of shoes and boots and have never looked at anythings other than those at that time. Use the shoes for quick site visit and in the the shop. Boots when I am on site for a period of time or they are a must. Still wouldn't buy sneakers and see no reason the person could use them.

 

[steveintoronto]

Thought I would post this rendering for something to look forward to when we can ride our bikes here when completed.

I'm probably one of the most cycle-avid on this board, but looking at that pic, I'd avoid it with great prejudice. Anyone fooled by this:

as a 'green box of safety' is a naive sucker who's going to get hit, albeit there'll be motorists lined up behind wanting to turn right honking their horns and trying to push you off the road before they actually impact.

And designers thinking this is 'bike friendly' are not only fools, they're a danger to the general public. I agree with prior comments on the need for "square corners"...or if not, a right turn 'slip lane' that allows a safety island for pedestrians and cyclists alike to pause until they have the light in their favour to cross the rest of the intersection. And that island, btw, must have a protective post or more to stop the inevitable out of control vehicle slamming into those waiting on it.

What's shown above rings every sixth sense I have that's kept me alive cycling here and abroad for over fifty years. You don't survive this long by 'standing on green asphalt' as a mark to get run over.

See:
http://www.protectedintersection.com/

Phhh...the junction was actually safer the way it was before, at least travelling west. Whenever I found myself forced to use it by lack of foresight on my part, I dismounted before going over the bridge, and walked along the old RoW to cross Kipling on foot. Much more controlled, predictable and safe.

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/To...23555502ab4c477!8m2!3d43.653226!4d-79.3831843

Is the new intersection more 'pedestrian friendly'? Perhaps, perhaps not, but it's a freakin' nightmare for cyclists. It's just WRONG! Sure you'll get Willy Whyshouldicare cycling it. Good luck to Willy. I certainly won't. N'or will I recommend it to any other cyclists.

Not to mention, all of the additional traffic signals will limit speeding.

Excellent! They'll only run you over doing 50 km instead of 80. Huge relief there...

Here's how the Dutch do it, in the same space it takes to do the ridiculous one the City is doing (apologies if the English has a Dutch accent to it. It's not an excuse to ignore what US cities are now doing as well as other English speaking jurisdictions, but not Toronto. No sir, we're too 'Multicultural'...phhhh)

 

[Neutrino]

As a driver, I feel safer when pedestrians/cyclists are safer. I would love it if more intersections in Toronto had squared off corners (and curb extensions). Also, sight lines for both drivers and pedestrians (and cyclists) are pretty bad in many Toronto locations. Would be nice to improve that aspect as well.

 

[steveintoronto]

Also, sight lines for both drivers and pedestrians (and cyclists) are pretty bad in many Toronto locations.

Terrible in many locations. And one of the worst instances? The Bloor Bike Lanes, a catalogue of how not to do cycling infrastructure. Bad for cyclists, pedestrians and motorists. And many cyclists are completely unaware of the danger they're in.

 

[Neutrino]

Indeed. I once went for a run along Bloor West. Because I was running at about 2x the average walking speed, I could see what the situation is like for cyclists. The higher speed (and city cycling is up to 3x average walk speed) meant I was approaching intersections rapidly. Drivers have less time to react because cyclists are moving so much faster than pedestrians. My head was on a swivel to ensure I knew where all the cars were. And as you mentioned, poor sight lines which make it even worse.

 

[steveintoronto]

^ And further to that, the parked cars being on the outside of the bike lane obliterates almost any line of sight for cyclists and motorists travelling in the same direction, and then motorists on side streets looking to cross or merge onto Bloor have to nose across the bike lane, completely blocking it, to safely proceed across or onto Bloor. And then there's the lack of ability to meet the HTA regs for attaining the bike lane (being the closest to the curb) before actually turning, something I see cops failing to do time and again even where sightlines are good. Failing to do that means that drivers are 'making an illegal turn' by crossing a lane before attaining it, very dangerous, but set-up to do by the City's dreadful implementation of cycling and road safety infrastructure. I've had discussions with Toronto Police Traffic on this, and they too are appalled, one sergeant stating that she's a motorcyclist, and she wouldn't even do that in Toronto now, too dangerous.

Interestingly, at the protectedintersection.com link I posted above is this Montreal example, very crude, an obvious sop to try and get right what was not done so initially, but clearly illustrates that they 'get it':

http://www.protectedintersection.com/wp-content/gallery/international-examples/montrealquebeccanada.jpg

NYC has also done a number of these 'add-ons' albeit with concrete barriers for protection (I wouldn't use the Montreal example, it puts you unprotected right in the line of a moron turning right) and Toronto could have used the excuse "we just didn't have the space to do it right" at Six Points, save that the claim would be, and is utterly absurd.

If this was K-W, a round-about would have been considered with pedestrian/cyclist underpass. A round-about would have accommodated all 'six-points' with no traffic lights at all...but alas. It's Toronto...nuff said.

 

[darth_freeman]

I'm probably one of the most cycle-avid on this board, but looking at that pic, I'd avoid it with great prejudice. Anyone fooled by this:

See:
http://www.protectedintersection.com/

Now how should this look at an intersection with two 6 lane roads at all approaches? Keep in mind this is a major intersection that will have a lot of trucks turning, etc. etc.

 

[crs1026]

^It looks sensible in theory, but I wonder how many cyclists will actually make the jog, versus just continuing in a straight line into the intersection.....and how many motorists will heed the recessed stopping point, versus pulling right up to the point of auto intersection. Needs a lot of education.

- Paul