TTC: Other Items (catch all)

[nfitz]

Even 4 trips at current fare exceed the day pass cost and show TTC is out of tune to meet rider needs.

On Presto? 4 trips is $12 and the day pass costs $12.50. You need to make 5 trips, or else you are using money.

And to be honest, the number of times I make more than 5 trips in a day, separated by more than 2-hours, are very rare. Right now, you could start riding at 9 AM and ride until 5 PM, for less than a day pass. Probably longer than that, unless you manage to tap at the 2:01 mark four times in a row!

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

And to be honest, the number of times I make more than 5 trips in a day, separated by more than 2-hours, are very rare. Right now, you could start riding at 9 AM and ride until 5 PM, for less than a day pass. Probably longer than that, unless you manage to tap at the 2:01 mark four times in a row!

and that'st the exact reasoning for the TTC getting rid of the daily pass, not enough actual trips that add up to the cost of it.

 

[W. K. Lis]

and that'st the exact reasoning for the TTC getting rid of the daily pass, not enough actual trips that add up to the cost of it.

I can still see tourists and those on a stay-cation wanting a day pass.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

I can still see tourists and those on a stay-cation wanting a day pass.

Probably not enough of them to make it a viable option to keep.

 

[nfitz]

and that'st the exact reasoning for the TTC getting rid of the daily pass, not enough actual trips that add up to the cost of it.

Daily passes are still available. Very useful on the weekends, with 2 adults and kids.

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

I can still see tourists and those on a stay-cation wanting a day pass.

Tourists, and people who normally drive would want a day pass, as well as those on a stay cation.

 

[Richard White]

Tourists, and people who normally drive would want a day pass, as well as those on a stay cation.

I can see them doing what TFL does in London wherein they have a daily cap. In London if you travel within Zones 1-2 for example your daily fare cap is 6.80 and nothing more. Their 7 day pass however costs less than 7 total days of the daily cap.

This would eliminate the need for a day pass and before anyone says.. oh but they still need a physical pass for tourists, the homeless or the convalescent allow me to say that is not an excuse. Honestly, very few cities have a group pass anymore. Most cities that have fare cards like Oyster eliminated the group passes in favour of a daily cap. The simple reason is that it is both impractical and impossible to have 2 or more people using the same card. While you MIGHT be able to program Presto to display it as a group pass to fare inspectors, it will still present problems at the gates in terms of anti-passback measures and the limited time to pass through the gates.

Cities like London and Paris have done away with paper or single use fare media in favour of fare cards. You can no longer buy tickets, passes or tokens in London. You can put money on a card but not buy tickets, tokens or pay cash. They do not have single use media like a day pass and the world has not come to an end.

All I am saying is in the next couple of years single use fare media will disappear in Toronto.

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

I can see them doing what TFL does in London wherein they have a daily cap. In London if you travel within Zones 1-2 for example your daily fare cap is 6.80 and nothing more. Their 7 day pass however costs less than 7 total days of the daily cap.

This would eliminate the need for a day pass and before anyone says.. oh but they still need a physical pass for tourists, the homeless or the convalescent allow me to say that is not an excuse. Honestly, very few cities have a group pass anymore. Most cities that have fare cards like Oyster eliminated the group passes in favour of a daily cap. The simple reason is that it is both impractical and impossible to have 2 or more people using the same card. While you MIGHT be able to program Presto to display it as a group pass to fare inspectors, it will still present problems at the gates in terms of anti-passback measures and the limited time to pass through the gates.

Cities like London and Paris have done away with paper or single use fare media in favour of fare cards. You can no longer buy tickets, passes or tokens in London. You can put money on a card but not buy tickets, tokens or pay cash. They do not have single use media like a day pass and the world has not come to an end.

All I am saying is in the next couple of years single use fare media will disappear in Toronto.

That is true, your last sentence.

 

[nfitz]

All I am saying is in the next couple of years single use fare media will disappear in Toronto.

That's not the plan. In fact, early next year, they are introducing single-use media, with paper tickets that are Presto-compatible, to replace tokens.

 

[Richard White]

That's not the plan. In fact, early next year, they are introducing single-use media, with paper tickets that are Presto-compatible, to replace tokens.

I realize that but what I am trying to say is that it will inevitably fail. Cardboard single use fare media is not sustainable long term. I am not trying to be insensitive BUT the argument that lack of a single use fare medium is a problem for the homeless is a non-starter in my books. As I said, in larger cities with more complex systems they do not have tokens or single use fare media. The homeless are not revolting and the systems isn't failing.

I hate to say it but I can see Doug Ford forcing the issue and causing single use fare media to be eliminated either via legislation or a takeover of the TTC. I can see him doing this as an efficiency because Presto can do everything that single use media can but better. It would likely be framed as a duplication and unnecessary.

Honestly, the whole reason single use media will exist is because homeless advocates complained that the homeless could not manage with a presto card given that they are currently given tokens and Councilors wanted them because of tourists. As I said Tourists will manage without single use fare media as noted in cities like London and Paris.

 

[smallspy]

I realize that but what I am trying to say is that it will inevitably fail. Cardboard single use fare media is not sustainable long term.

It seems to be elsewhere. Why wouldn't it be here?

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[DSC]

I realize that but what I am trying to say is that it will inevitably fail. Cardboard single use fare media is not sustainable long term. I am not trying to be insensitive BUT the argument that lack of a single use fare medium is a problem for the homeless is a non-starter in my books. As I said, in larger cities with more complex systems they do not have tokens or single use fare media. The homeless are not revolting and the systems isn't failing.

I hate to say it but I can see Doug Ford forcing the issue and causing single use fare media to be eliminated either via legislation or a takeover of the TTC. I can see him doing this as an efficiency because Presto can do everything that single use media can but better. It would likely be framed as a duplication and unnecessary.

Honestly, the whole reason single use media will exist is because homeless advocates complained that the homeless could not manage with a presto card given that they are currently given tokens and Councilors wanted them because of tourists. As I said Tourists will manage without single use fare media as noted in cities like London and Paris.

Have you ever been to London (UK)? Their much more complex system continues to offer single-trip paper tickets (see https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/how-to-pay...oyster/single-and-return-tickets?intcmp=54708 ) I do not think that they keep single-trip tickets - only for the subway - because of concern for the homeless - many are used by tourists who do not want to buy an Oyster card (even though that might actually be a better option for them.) Frankly, if one is an organisation that currently distributes free tokens to, for example, to homeless you may find it better to distribute free PRESTO cards with a couple of trips on them and/or add trips to existing cards so single-use tickets (or maybe more cost-effective) one-day 'passses' may be used more by visitors and very occasional-user locals. Once you can pay for trips directly on a credit or debit card (and do not need to invest in a PRESTO) no doubt single-use fare media will go.

 

[Richard White]

Have you ever been to London (UK)?

Yes. Yes I have.

 

[nfitz]

Yes. Yes I have.

Surely if you are going to fill the thread with massive self-portraits and pretend that many (if not most) other cities are not retaining single-fair media, then you are simply trolling us.

 

[DKsan]

Being a tourist that's an urbanist is a bit disingenuous.

I'm from the GTA, currently working in London, but commuting from one of the London home countries (the commuter belt outside London). I can't use an Oyster card because my home station is outside Zone 6, so I use a scannable paper ticket that doubles as a London zone 1-6 pass. Said paper ticket is used everywhere in the UK, on trains, in fare gates, etc.