Toronto Sugar Wharf Condominiums (Phase 1) | 231m | 70s | Menkes | a—A

[Start Fox]

The answer is that no one knows yet what the park will look like - the park will be city-owned and presumably will go out for a design competition similar to the Rees Park and York Park competition that just occurred (here's hoping Claude Cormier wins this one too!)

The park is on Menkes' land (i.e. Sugar Wharf land), so I find it kind of humorous that Pinnacle (i.e. One Yonge) focuses on it in its promotional material (sure, it'll be beside their projects, but they make it look like they should be getting credit for it). On that subject, I'm kind of confused about how Menkes had to donate so much parkland for this site but Pinnacle seems not to have had to donate any for their site of approximately the same size and density.

 

[Jowblow333333]

Looks like they snuck a tower at the back in this latest Sugar Warf rendering

View attachment 160045

may be that's their future plan, once they r done with sugar wharf project they will build something on that parking. and if u look closely there is a shadow of a midrise next to the sugar wharf office building on the Loblaws site.

Model buildings on Loblaws land at the Menkes Sugar Wharf presentation center were "presented".

 

[Automation Gallery]

I'm kind of confused about how Menkes had to donate so much parkland for this site but Pinnacle seems not to have had to donate any for their site of approximately the same size and density.

Yeah i hear you, i think Pinnacle's lot is smaller and will eventually have less density
i believe they gave up a bit including. public space a new roadway and a community centre, but yeah Menkes got caught up with the heritage preservation, gave up a big parcel of land for a park, new roadways, a school, etc......either way i think the city worked both them well to get a good deal

 

[Automation Gallery]

Model buildings on Loblaws land at the Menkes Sugar Wharf presentation center were "presented".

Yup nothing is set in stone, that's just a vision of what could be built there
Looking at the pattern of whats going on in that area here is my prediction of whats going to be planned on that Loblaws land (58s/52s-20s)....lol

 

[stjames2queenwest]

In regards to menkes vs pinnacle... is the reason not that menkes bought the land from the city/ province so they had to make agreements?

 

[Start Fox]

I don't believe so (though I could be wrong). My understanding is that every development has to provide parkland or money in lieu under s. 37 (of...the Planning Act, I guess?). The developer and the City negotiate that before the development is approved.

Pinnacle does have a POPS on the NW corner of their site, and a community centre, and I'm sure other things. Perhaps they gave a good chunk of "money in lieu" (I think I remember they gave something like $5 million for the ferry terminal reno). But the park on the Sugar Wharf site would presumably be worth about $50 million (since it's about 1/4 of the site and I believe Menkes bought the site for $250 million), and I can't point to $50 million worth of s. 37 benefits that Pinnacle has given (though if their supertall looks as good as the renderings, I'll forgive them).

Regardless, I'm very excited for this park. I like both Pinnacle and Menkes' renderings of it, even though they'll have no say in what it looks like, and would be happy with either of those.

 

[DSC]

I don't believe so (though I could be wrong). My understanding is that every development has to provide parkland or money in lieu under s. 37 (of...the Planning Act, I guess?). The developer and the City negotiate that before the development is approved.

Pinnacle does have a POPS on the NW corner of their site, and a community centre, and I'm sure other things. Perhaps they gave a good chunk of "money in lieu" (I think I remember they gave something like $5 million for the ferry terminal reno). But the park on the Sugar Wharf site would presumably be worth about $50 million (since it's about 1/4 of the site and I believe Menkes bought the site for $250 million), and I can't point to $50 million worth of s. 37 benefits that Pinnacle has given (though if their supertall looks as good as the renderings, I'll forgive them).

Regardless, I'm very excited for this park. I like both Pinnacle and Menkes' renderings of it, even though they'll have no say in what it looks like, and would be happy with either of those.

Actually (mandatory) parkland $$ come under S 42 of the Planning Act; they can be 'enhanced' by additional funds through s 37.

 

[TheKingEast]

I totally agree, and I'm really excited about it. But it just won't be ready until there's proper transit here. The bus connections are ludicrous. I find it almost absurd that we've gotten this far with the developments without anything concrete about an LRT

City does not really consider transit a priority. I think it's hilarious that we're building whole areas with no transit solution.

I know I complained about this before....but forgot just how bland and melba toast-looking this project is.

 

[Blitz901]

City does not really consider transit a priority. I think it's hilarious that we're building whole areas with no transit solution.

I know I complained about this before....but forgot just how bland and melba toast-looking this project is.

I don't disagree with you but on this particular site transit really isn't a priority compared to other areas in TO. Sugar Wharf phase 1 and 2 are with in a couple minute walk of Union station. Even Danial's is fine unless you have mobility issues. Probably faster to walk to union from there than wait for a street car and traffic lights (if it existed). I suspect the city will operate a very short bus line along Queen's Quay east for a couple years until the Portlands are reclaimed and construction begins there.

 

[Jowblow333333]

According to Google Map, it takes 17 mins walking time from Daniels to Union Station and 8 minutes to St. Lawrence Market.

 

[Blitz901]

According to Google Map, it takes 17 mins walking time from Daniels to Union Station and 8 minutes to St. Lawrence Market.

Sounds about right. I doubt riding that same distance with a streetcar on Queen's Quay west the same distance will be much faster than 15min once you factor in the wait and the delays at the Union station turn around. Streetcars are gruelingly slow.

 

[Start Fox]

Respectfully, I have to disagree. Streetcars travel at approx the same speed as cars and busses. So by your logic there's no point in cars, busses, or streetcars.

Also, the streetcar on Queens Quay East is supposed to have a right-of-way, so it should be faster than cars and busses.

Lastly, none of the above considers the fact that there is a HUGE difference between 15 minutes on a streetcar vs. 15 minutes walking when it's -10 degrees outside.

 

[Jowblow333333]

I would count those 17 minutes walking time as your daily exercise and if it gets too cold, take the bus or Uber, not a big deal. For Sugar Wharf, it will be connected through PATH and before that, access CIBC Square's PATH or RBC WaterPark Place's PATH.

 

[Blitz901]

Have you ever riode a streetcar downtown? Try Spadina during rush hour! As for your -10 argument I have to agree it will be miserable but the line will cost over half a billion dollars! That's $20,000 per future resident $600,000,000 / 30,000 = $20k so,,, wear a warmer coat?!

Maybe be you want to come work a 9hr construction job in January for a day like thounsands do everyday? Lifes rough sometimes

 

[rbt]

Respectfully, I have to disagree. Streetcars travel at approx the same speed as cars and busses. So by your logic there's no point in cars, busses, or streetcars.

For distances under 1km, I would agree with your generic assertion that there is no point to assistive devices for the majority of trips. Exceptions, of course, include those with mobility issues or moving large amounts of goods.