Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[Streety McCarface]

Of course not - it's not a full scale subway.

The underground section isn't? (though, that's not technically in Etobicoke) I'd consider that a subway, I'd also consider the current SRT rapid transit (because it's grade separated). With that in mind, if Eglington west is built, it should be built as a grade separated line (elevated or whatnot), so I'd say it's fair to claim that I advocate for rapid transit/subways in Etobicoke. Though, bear in mind, Etobicoke currently has half the population of Scarborough and 4 subway stations compared to Scarborough's 3 (plus the SRT, but that's just rapid transit, and if one assumes Eglinton West and some of the Finch West LRT (The 2 last stations) are rapid transit stations because of grade separation, then the two negate each other).

 

[Towered]

Speak for yourself. I'd love nothing more than to see the Bloor-Danforth Line extended westwards at least to Sherway Gardens if not all the way into Mississauga towards Cooksville and Square One. Scarborough's the easier ask to tackle though because it's exclusively the City of Toronto's jurisdiction involved.

What about the rest of Etobicoke? It has no subway stations north of Bloor.

 

[Towered]

Blame David Miller and the Liberals for that blunder.

Not Mike Harris?

 

[Towered]

The underground section isn't? (though, that's not technically in Etobicoke) I'd consider that a subway, I'd also consider the current SRT rapid transit (because it's grade separated). With that in mind, if Eglington west is built, it should be built as a grade separated line (elevated or whatnot), so I'd say it's fair to claim that I advocate for rapid transit/subways in Etobicoke. Though, bear in mind, Etobicoke currently has half the population of Scarborough and 4 subway stations compared to Scarborough's 3 (plus the SRT, but that's just rapid transit, and if one assumes Eglinton West and some of the Finch West LRT (The 2 last stations) are rapid transit stations because of grade separation, then the two negate each other).

Isn't Etobicoke half the size of Scarborough physically? What are their comparative densities?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Downtowners can hold the rest of the City hostage for their $20+ billion pipe dream too, even with their far more advantaged transit network. Don't blame Scarborough for having better, more influential politicians backing them.

Downtowners can walk and bike to their workplace - like a good chunk of them already do, because few relatively sane ones spend 3 bucks just to ride two stops during rush hour. Guess who will be getting it when the existing subways lines get overloaded? Guess who will have to put up with an even worse situation at Y+B? This is like shooting yourself in the foot to own the libs.

And if you think that extending a pre-existing line 3 stops counts as a crowning achievement of forward looking transit planning, well, history will be the judge of that.

AoD

 

[innsertnamehere]

Downtowners can walk and bike to their workplace - like a good chunk of them already do, because few relatively few sane ones spend 3 bucks just to ride two stops during rush hour. Guess who will be getting it when the existing subways lines get overloaded? Guess who will have to put up with an even worse situation at Y+B? This is like shooting yourself in the foot to own the libs.

And if you think that extending a pre-existing line 3 stops counts as a crowning achievement of forward looking transit planning, well, history will be the judge of that.

AoD

I have lived downtown for 6 years now in 4 different apartments and have never used the subway regularly to commute. It's either been biking, streetcar, or walking.

If the damn DRL was built across town I would have used that.. but it wasn't, so no subway for me.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I have lived downtown for 6 years now in 4 different apartments and have never used the subway regularly to commute. It's either been biking, streetcar, or walking.

If the damn DRL was built across town I would have used that.. but it wasn't, so no subway for me.

Indeed - but of course, you live in Hipsterville, so streetcars only for you (not even grade separated anything)

AoD

 

[UD2]

What is the population and employment density in these areas?

When was the subway built downtown, and why?

the population and employment in downtown is higher because planning and city building in Toronto has failed to attract businesses and people out side of the core over the past decade.

Continuing to focus infrastructure developments downtown while neglecting the suburbs will continue to make the population disparity worse, increase peak hour traffic congestion, and make our city less efficient overall.

This is especially bad for Toronto since our downtown is beside a lake and therefore can only be accessed via 3 directions.

Hence why we need to divert funds to areas out side of downtown so that more business and residences will choose to located in areas of the city that is not already over populated.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

the population and employment in downtown is higher because planning and city building in Toronto has failed to attract businesses and people out side of the core over the past decade.

Continuing to focus infrastructure developments downtown while neglecting the suburbs will continue to make the population disparity worse, increase peak hour traffic congestion, and make our city less efficient overall.

This is especially bad for Toronto since our downtown is beside a lake and therefore can only be accessed via 3 directions.

Hence why we need to divert funds to areas out side of downtown so that more business and residences will choose to located in areas of the city that is not already over populated.

Planning and city building cannot attract what the private sector doesn't want to provide - and those elements that make downtown attractive is precisely what is missing in the inner suburbs by its' very design. We have tried your suggested decentralization approach once - in the 80s/90s - it was an abject failure.

And what infrastructure development downtown? Practically ALL transit projects under construction right now are inner suburbs focused. Also, what did you think the BD extension to STC was about? For riders to get to Kipling easier? You want to hear infastructure investment in downtown? How about a few million to draw a few lines on King Street that produced a 20K/d increase in ridership?

AoD

 

[OneCity]

the population and employment in downtown is higher because planning and city building in Toronto has failed to attract businesses and people out side of the core over the past decade.

Continuing to focus infrastructure developments downtown while neglecting the suburbs will continue to make the population disparity worse, increase peak hour traffic congestion, and make our city less efficient overall.

This is especially bad for Toronto since our downtown is beside a lake and therefore can only be accessed via 3 directions.

Hence why we need to divert funds to areas out side of downtown so that more business and residences will choose to located in areas of the city that is not already over populated.

Up until now, there was minimal leadership and detailed focus to revitalize the inner burbs since amalgamation these areas may continue to perform worse against the 905 in term of business and future urban-suburban style transition as the focus required simply doesn't exist. Downtown has an easy sell surrounding previous infrastructure investments of the past or in attractive areas close by to these past investments. Tory has done well to give this City a chance to balance itself in an era where our politics is paying for the past investments which are now paying and are fighting against poor investments of the past and vast neglect

I don't ever see our inner suburbs receiving sustainable detailed focus, and leadership going forward which makes its even more important to provide better connections for these residents in the outter more neglected areas of the City to access the investment Core. Improved BRT, LRT, or express bus can be achieve at anytime in the future as required and can be handled by the City alone. Certainly the least cost effective subway option is moving forward due to poisoned geographical politics which couldn't work together here, but when stops are added back in the subway, its route, hospital stop, and connection will provide far greater long term commuter and economic benefits than the RT ever could for the heart of this massive neglected suburb. RER, The Sheppard subway connection, and local rapid transit (BRT or LRT) to UTSC and Malvern is a great plan that will never be overturned with the support of residents once designed. The City needs to invest in growth and relief together and pay better attention to the individual areas and residents if it wants to stop wasting further time and hopefully elect leaders that can respect all areas of the City

 

[Streety McCarface]

Isn't Etobicoke half the size of Scarborough physically? What are their comparative densities?

These numbers are taken from wikipedia.

Etobicoke: 2,946 people/km^2
Scarborough: 3,368 people/km^2

This actually quite honestly surprises me. I myself don't believe every corner of Scarborough should get a subway, but at least some major corridor that goes further into the city should

 

[innsertnamehere]

These numbers are taken from wikipedia.

Etobicoke: 2,946 people/km^2
Scarborough: 3,368 people/km^2

This actually quite honestly surprises me. I myself don't believe every corner of Scarborough should get a subway, but at least some major corridor that goes further into the city should

The reason for this is that Scarborough has it's density spread over a much larger area - Etobicoke has it in a few specific transit friendly zones.

 

[UD2]

Planning and city building cannot attract what the private sector doesn't want to provide - and those elements that make downtown attractive is precisely what is missing in the inner suburbs by its' very design. We have tried your suggested decentralization approach once - in the 80s/90s - it was an abject failure.

And what infrastructure development downtown? Practically ALL transit projects under construction right now are inner suburbs focused. Also, what did you think the BD extension to STC was about? For riders to get to Kipling easier? You want to hear infastructure investment in downtown? How about a few million to draw a few lines on King Street that produced a 20K/d increase in ridership?

AoD

Decentralization initiate in the 80s/90s were on track until amalgamation derailed the efforts and refocused developments downtown. Hense why we have what currently is NYCC and STC. If the efforts were continued and the Sheppard line was completed to the STC
and Sheppard West, our landscape today would be vastly different.

Since amalgamation, go transit improvements, better subway signaling, steercar priority are all focused on getting people downtown. Eglinton was the first project that’s focused on getting people to the inner suburban business areas to work.

With regards to downtown investments, with 500 meter subway stops, I don’t see how it can get better than what it is given our realities.

The Scarborough subway extension is still in the drawing board and its effect will be felt 20 years out. But even this is only an upgrade to an already existing transit line.

What the inner burbs need is a completed network of transit.

With Eglinton being completed, we need to complete the DRL long and Sheppard East extention before businesses will be attracted to locate out side of the core. And the move outward will happen because nobody will pay $40/SF for rent in the core for rent if they can pay $10 out side.

 

[DB9]

Planning and city building cannot attract what the private sector doesn't want to provide - and those elements that make downtown attractive is precisely what is missing in the inner suburbs by its' very design. We have tried your suggested decentralization approach once - in the 80s/90s - it was an abject failure.

And what infrastructure development downtown? Practically ALL transit projects under construction right now are inner suburbs focused. Also, what did you think the BD extension to STC was about? For riders to get to Kipling easier? You want to hear infastructure investment in downtown? How about a few million to draw a few lines on King Street that produced a 20K/d increase in ridership?

AoD

Exactly - even if all the transit fantasy projects "that Scarborough deserves" were built - companies will still prefer to locate downtown, because that's where employees want to work. There is a "dearth" of leadership because even Scarborough councilors know all the subsidies in the world won't bring re-locations to Scarborough. The biggest advantage the 905 has over Scarborough is "greenfields" and they're just not easy to find in Scarb. Maybe the greenbelt can eventually re-balance the economics again to favour Scarborough, but that's assuming the greenbelt doesn't get dismantled by Ford..

If anything, all the money being siphoned off to the suburbs will eventually strangle the golden goose, and when downtown falls, the whole region will decline with it economically.

 

[Hopkins123]

Not Mike Harris?

The only blame Harris gets is for not completing the Sheppard Subway when he had the chance. Now any average joe can invent their own justifications to discredit just how useful it'd be to hundreds of thousands of commuters daily. The Crosstown is an improvement on the nineties subway plan for Eglinton, 13 kilometres of underground transit is nothing to sneeze on. But the Liberals did fail and let down Toronto big time upon insisting that the outskirts of the Line be operated like a glorified streetcar. This is why suburbanites are pissed off and voted in droves for the Conservatives.

Trenched, elevated, tunneled, a combination of the 3... any of those outcomes through Etobicoke and Scarborough is a vast improvement over the Transit City plan.