King Street (Streetcar Transit Priority)

[Northern Light]

Ward experts: Any chance we'll be getting rid of Fragedakis? I'm definitely not over her car2go blunder. I loved that service and now Toronto's got no one-way, per-minute car share.

I haven't heard of anyone else coming forward. She's the NDP candidate there and they rarely sack a sitting councillor from within (who could probably ride incumbency anyway)

She's voted the right way on some issues; but overall has been an incredible disappointment. A green P lot w/frontage on Danforth (highest and best use, cough), not 1km of bike lane, not one significant streetscape improvement, no new parkland, the carshare blunder, I think outside of a few broad policy-type votes the only thing I can credit her with is a fair bit of tree planting.

If the ward merger went through, she'd be up against Paula Fletcher, assuming she's running again. Not sure there's a winning choice there. Two of my least favourite 'progressive' councillors.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Ward experts: Any chance we'll be getting rid of Fragedakis? I'm definitely not over her car2go blunder. I loved that service and now Toronto's got no one-way, per-minute car share.

I'm pissed about that too - but it seems that a new service will be in place soon. Communauto is supposedly entering the market and I wouldn't be surprised if Car2Go returns now that council effectively changed the rules to their demands. Communauto's costs are also much, much lower than Car2Go's were, at least for their montreal operations. You can buy an unlimited under 30 minute trip pass for $50 / month in Montreal!

 

[steveintoronto]

as it's very unlikely that the courts would stop the 47-ward election.

I had to do a double take on this, read it the other way initially, but agreed. At least in the interim, an *injunction* is highly likely to leave the status-quo in place. In the absence of case-law to cite for a ruling, a judge *most likely* will defer to common sense until a proper legal examination can be put to the court. So the war may not be won, but the battle will be.

In the event, at this rate, I don't see a second Ford term.

 

[Northern Light]

I'm pissed about that too - but it seems that a new service will be in place soon. Communauto is supposedly entering the market and I wouldn't be surprised if Car2Go returns now that council effectively changed the rules to their demands. Communauto's costs are also much, much lower than Car2Go's were, at least for their montreal operations. You can buy an unlimited under 30 minute trip pass for $50 / month in Montreal!

Did the motion to amend the carshare pilot pass?

I saw that Cressy was going to introduce it. But (maybe I haven't had enough coffee yet) I didn't see the motion in the council minutes for the July 23 mtg.

Also no news items since saying it passed.

 

[innsertnamehere]

The amendment passed 35-5 (surprisingly), with the amended item passing 38-5.

http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2018.CC44.33

Mary Fragedakis was absent from both votes.

Essentially they increased the exclusion area to areas that are at 100% occupancy (vs. the previous 90%), and made it much more difficult and slow for councillors to exclude individual streets.

 

[steveintoronto]

I was down on King again few days back. The majority of cars were blatantly ignoring the street signs, even when I yelled to get the attention of the drivers, and pointed to the signs. They just don't care, and unless it's enforced, never will care.

 

[Northern Light]

The amendment passed 35-5 (surprisingly), with the amended item passing 38-5.

http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2018.CC44.33

Mary Fragedakis was absent from both votes.

Essentially they increased the exclusion area to areas that are at 100% occupancy (vs. the previous 90%), and made it much more difficult and slow for councillors to exclude individual streets.

Thank you.

I looked under Member Motions, the Mayor's section, and the relevant committees and somehow missed the 'new business' section.

 

[Northern Light]

I was down on King again few days back. The majority of cars were blatantly ignoring the street signs, even when I yelled to get the attention of the drivers, and pointed to the signs. They just don't care, and unless it's enforced, never will care.

I agree w/enforcement....but I 'm a bigger fan of intuitive design. The King Street concept (forced right-turn out) is a new one in Toronto, and the design of the road doesn't scream that's what you should do. (yes people should read the signs.....)

We have a few choices, for design changes, my instinct suggests something that forces traffic into the right hand lane (without blocking the flexities), at intersections, so that motorists are facing the no-go of the transit stop on the other side.

If you approach the intersection on the tracks, if feels as though you should be able to go through.

There is also the option of a bollard or gate across the tracks, but the challenge is that it would have to rise for cars turning right onto King, legally.

 

[MetroMan]

Votes are all on www under Council Minutes:
View attachment 153389

In other words, there'd be no effect on the King Street Pilot even if all the crazies got re-elected. The biggest concern is that Doug Ford would get involved.

I think they'll have to tip toe around this as to not get his attention. As much as it pains me, I think that some parking might need to be returned to King. Otherwise Ford will get involved when the King Street Pilot is the topic of the day again. Keep the new patios and replace some of the art installations with a few 1 hour parking spots. Just a token amount, not the sea of cars that once parked on King. This is actually how some of these spaces are being used anyway, with little to no parking enforcement.

They should then start progressively replacing temporary infrastructure with permanent ones. Replace the painted islands with curbs that'll force cars into the right turn lane at intersections. Replace green traffic lights with transit signals. Replace the No Through/No Left Turn signs with electronic versions. Widen sidewalks to permanently cut out the possibility of a curb traffic lane.

If City Council tries to pass a grand scheme to make the King Street Pilot permanent, as is, it'll likely make it through council but will get restaurant owners to protest and gain Ford's attention. Incrementalism will be the way to get through the Ford years.

 

[UD2]

when they launch the permanent version of this. Following will help

1. change the colour of the road so that driver can easily tell a difference. the fading yellow stripes are not easy to see when you need to pay attention to other cars, pedestrians, bikes, streetcars, read the 36 signs at each intersection, and drive in the same time. Most people who don't drive don't realize this. The best is to change pavement of the street thoroughfare to cobble stone. Drivers are inherently programed to drive on pavement and will subconsciously try to avoid uneven surfaces.

2. rumble strips at intersections so cars know they're doing something wrong

3. large painted arrows on the street from 100 meters before the lane shift (right) so cars can see it well before. Drivers can't see any signs or markers if they're following a street car. So we should give early warning.

4. traffic cameras

 

[raptor]

My suggestion is to replace the traffic lights' face of the green light. Instead of a plain green circle, have a green arrow pointing right

 

[MetroMan]

when they launch the permanent version of this. Following will help

1. change the colour of the road so that driver can easily tell a difference. the fading yellow stripes are not easy to see when you need to pay attention to other cars, pedestrians, bikes, streetcars, read the 36 signs at each intersection, and drive in the same time. Most people who don't drive don't realize this. The best is to change pavement of the street thoroughfare to cobble stone. Drivers are inherently programed to drive on pavement and will subconsciously try to avoid uneven surfaces.

2. rumble strips at intersections so cars know they're doing something wrong

3. large painted arrows on the street from 100 meters before the lane shift (right) so cars can see it well before. Drivers can't see any signs or markers if they're following a street car. So we should give early warning.

4. traffic cameras

1. Even when the yellow stripes are brand new bright yellow, drivers go over them. They should be replaced with raised curbs that streetcar tracks cut through but cars need to drive around. That forces them into the right turn lane.

2. Rumble strips approaching the island curb might help warn them to go right.

3. There are already painted arrows. Drivers ignore them.

4. There are already traffic cameras. They can't be used to prosecute an infraction other than red lights which have to be a specific type of camera. They're only there for observation.

 

[MetroMan]

Ultimately, all of this confusion could have been avoided. As was obvious even before it was implemented, the chosen design relies too heavily on driver adherence to the posted rules. New signs and measures to get drivers to obey are just bandaids.

The real solution is an intuitive road layout that drivers can't ignore and just know how to use. Alternating one way streets that change direction at every block and exclusive streetcar ROWs blocked by raised curbs in the approach to an intersection would make it impossible to go through. Drivers would know that they have to turn right because they would have no other available options. They'd arrive at an intersection and be faced with a dead end on the other side and a streetcar corridor on the left. No choice but to turn right.

 

[steveintoronto]

Points that all converge on @MetroMan 's last post above:

If you approach the intersection on the tracks, if feels as though you should be able to go through.

Replace the painted islands with curbs that'll force cars into the right turn lane at intersections.

My suggestion is to replace the traffic lights' face of the green light. Instead of a plain green circle, have a green arrow pointing right

1. Even when the yellow stripes are brand new bright yellow, drivers go over them. They should be replaced with raised curbs that streetcar tracks cut through but cars need to drive around. That forces them into the right turn lane.

3. There are already painted arrows. Drivers ignore them.

MM saved me having to make a point like his. I'm still completely boggled as to why the "Pilot Scheme" section of the HTA wasn't invoked to the Province:

PART XVI
PILOT PROJECTS
Pilot projects
228 (1) The Lieutenant Governor in Council may by regulation authorize or establish a project for research into or the testing or evaluation of any matter governed by this Act or relevant to highway traffic. 2005, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 33 (1).

Project may conflict with Acts
(2) Under a project authorized or established under subsection (1),

(a) persons or classes of persons may be authorized to do or use a thing that is prohibited or regulated under this Act, the Dangerous Goods Transportation Act, the Motorized Snow Vehicles Act, the Off-Road Vehicles Act or the Public Vehicles Act or to not do or use a thing that is required or authorizedby any of those Acts;

(b) the Minister or Ministry or any person authorized or required to do anything under this Act, the Dangerous Goods Transportation Act, the Motorized Snow Vehicles Act, the Off-Road Vehicles Act or the Public Vehicles Act may be authorized or required to do anything that is not authorized or required under any of those Acts or to do anything that is authorized or required under any of those Acts in a way that is different from the way it is authorized or required. 2005, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 33.

Limited to classes
(3) An authorization or requirement described in subsection (2) may be limited to any class of persons, class or type of vehicles, class of equipment, devices or highways, parts of Ontario, time of year or day, activities, matters or any other things. 2005, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 33 (1).

Regulation to create own scheme of rules
(4) A regulation made under this section may regulate the doing of anything or the use of any thing or prohibit the doing of anything or the using of any thing. 2005, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 33 (1).

Insurance
(5) A regulation made under this section may require a person or class of persons to carry insurance of a kind and in the amount specified. 2005, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 33 (1).

Time limit
(6) A regulation made under this section must provide that it is revoked no later than the twelfth anniversary of the day the regulation is filed. 2005, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 33 (1).

Project prevails over Acts
(7) In the event of a conflict between a regulation made under this section and any provision of this Act, the Dangerous Goods Transportation Act, the Motorized Snow Vehicles Act, the Off-Road Vehicles Act or the Public Vehicles Act or of a regulation made under any of those Acts, the regulation made under this section prevails. 2005, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 33.

Offence
(8) Every person who contravenes a regulation made under this section is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to a fine of not less than $250 and not more than $2,500. 2005, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 33 (1).

https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90h08

Good luck applying now with You Know Who as Premier.

This whole project has been treated like an illegal immigrant.

 

[Northern Light]

I had to do a double take on this, read it the other way initially, but agreed. At least in the interim, an *injunction* is highly likely to leave the status-quo in place. In the absence of case-law to cite for a ruling, a judge *most likely* will defer to common sense until a proper legal examination can be put to the court. So the war may not be won, but the battle will be.

In the event, at this rate, I don't see a second Ford term.

Let the battle begin:

https://www.thestar.com/news/city_h...g-fords-slashing-of-toronto-city-council.html

Injunction hearing set for Aug 31