Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion

[innsertnamehere]

Don’t know if it’s changed but I drove Calgary to Vancouver over ten years ago. I challenge anyone to drive Calgary to Vancouver and still argue that Canada is a developed nation

Continuous improvement to our national and regional highway system is absolutely important. With respect to national and regional infrastructure development in general Canada is very much a developing nation in my opinion

I did that drive last year and it was fine - albeit I did it via the Okanagan valley. on Highway 3 and 97.

The one spot that was a little rough was the kicking horse pass - but that has a $500 million upgrade plan underway right now so it won't be around for long. There are a ton of other upgrades and 4 lanes going on along the highway right now as well, it is getting better every year.

Generally the highway operated fine and I drove the entire stretch above 100km/h, for the Trans Canada portion.

Highway 97 up through the Okanagan is severely substandard though.

 

[Kitsune]

Twinning and Freeway'ing are two different things. Absolutely twinning 17 should be done all the way to Sault Ste Marie.... with some freeway segments through North Bay and Sudbury, and interchanges in area's of reduced visibility. Also, it should also be twinned from the 17/11 interchange to Manitoba, there by having one continuous four lane highway (a mix of twinning and freeway) from the Pacific Ocean to Nipigon (BC is currently twinning all of highway 1). I would be curious to know what the 17 and 11 numbers combined are.... as if your going to twin 17 from Sault Ste Marie to Nipigon it might be better to do Highway 11.

 

[innsertnamehere]

So I drove down the 400 from Barrie on Sunday.. couple of updates. The highway is one giant construction zone right now.

The bridge just south of the 11/400 split is in full construction of its replacement, though still appears early days.

The Tiffin Street overpass in Barrie looks like its first out of 2 structures is almost done on the east side, and is almost ready for northbound traffic to shift onto it.. They have significantly regraded the highway for the new bridge, at a much higher elevation by 4-5m.

The McKay Road overpass looks more or less complete.

The construction then clears up down to Bradford, where it is a now a full 80km/h construction zone more or less all the way to Major Mackenzie in Vaughan.

The new 5th line interchange south of Bradford has its bridge structure more or less done.. just grading and paving left now.

Highway 9 / Davis Drive is quickly nearing completion, along with the new south canal bridges. I believe the North Canal bridge replacement between Highway 9 and the new 5th Line interchange is scheduled to start this year as well.

They have started construction on the Lloydtown-Aurora Road interchange now, which starts where the Davis Drive interchange work ends and extends several km south.

There is then a gap of 2 or 3km before you reach the King Road widening work down to Major Mack, which is in full swing for grading right now.


All in all, the highway is getting an insane amount of badly needed money sunk into it. Most of the work (except for a very small stretch between Lloydtown-Aurora Road and King Road) is underway or will be underway shortly to bring HOVs up to Bradford. I wouldn't be surprised if it is in place in 3-4 years.

Significant progress is also being made in Barrie to prepare for a widening, though that is a bit further off.

 

[gweed123]

Twinning and Freeway'ing are two different things. Absolutely twinning 17 should be done all the way to Sault Ste Marie.... with some freeway segments through North Bay and Sudbury, and interchanges in area's of reduced visibility. Also, it should also be twinned from the 17/11 interchange to Manitoba, there by having one continuous four lane highway (a mix of twinning and freeway) from the Pacific Ocean to Nipigon (BC is currently twinning all of highway 1). I would be curious to know what the 17 and 11 numbers combined are.... as if your going to twin 17 from Sault Ste Marie to Nipigon it might be better to do Highway 11.

Agreed. For me, rural highway twinning is more about safety than anything else, specifically about reducing head-on collisions. IMO, the Highway 11 configuration between Bracebridge and North Bay is the perfect configuration for rural highways: twinned, no direct private access, interchanges at major roads, and at-grade intersections at minor roads. No need for extensive service road configurations like would be needed for a proper 400-series highway.

 

[lenaitch]

I'm not sure I would call the Huntsville-North Bay section of Hwy 11 as "twinning" except the older part at the north end. The problem with either option is the impact on the local communities. Their economies rely largely on tourism, and if you bypass them it can be devastating but if you leave the alignment through the towns then you create pinch points. I'm still not convinced most of the northern highway - the real north - have the traffic volumes to justify the cost. Pembroke to Ottawa is turning into almost commuter-level traffic, and possibly Sudbury-North Bay as there is a fair bit of inter-city traffic but I just don't see the volumes in the other stretches. I just drove from Barrie to Sault Ste. Marie (in Soo as I speak) and the run wasn't anything that I would call busy. Certainly, divided highways are likely safer and easier to drive, but at a steep cost. One factor that complicates things is any place an alignment goes through a FNT, since it turns into a tripartite land claims issue and adds years to the process.

Expanding the 17 route would be orders of magnitude over the cost of expanding the northern 11 route simply because of the topography.

With a few exceptions, the fact that a truck load of anything is used to transport commerce across the country instead of on rail is a sad comment.

 

[nfitz]

All in favour for a dedicated Canadian Freeway Expansion Thread say I.

Should also create a Canadian Expansion Tollway thread as well!

Given how quiet this thread is, perhaps a simple highway thread is best. I don't see there's going to be much discussion on non-GTA roads, that would call for extra threads.

 

[drum118]

On Mississauga General Committee Agenda next week

Subject
Temporary Road Closure - Goreway Drive from Brandon Gate Drive to North City Limit (Ward 5)

Recommendation
That in accordance with the Temporary Road Closure By-law 0206-2016, Council be advised that Goreway Drive will be closed from Brandon Gate Drive to the North City Limit for a period of 12 to 15 months during the construction of the grade separation over the Canadian National (CN) Rail tracks. It is anticipated that the road closure will commence November 2018.

CN Rail recently indicated that the proposed temporary Goreway Drive detour road would require the relocation of switch gear assemblies/spur line tracks/structures etc., going into the busy intermodal terminal further north. Due to the difficulty obtaining the required time blocks to conduct the relocation, CN Rail stated that the track works alone would take at least 26 months 8.4 General Committee 2018/05/11 2 to complete and cost approximately $6.6 million. CN Rail requested both Mississauga and Brampton to consider closing Goreway Drive at the CN Rail tracks completely to road and pedestrian traffic during the 12 to 15 month construction period.

Staff estimates that the overall construction savings of closing the road is approximately $9.5 million, including the CN Works and a reduction in construction time of 24 months to complete the project. A Traffic Assessment of the closure of Goreway Drive completed in April 2018 concludes that a full closure over 12 to 15 months is feasible.

The Commissioner of Transportation and Works has the authority to close City roadways in accordance with Temporary Road Closure By-law 0206-2016. Given the class of roadway and the duration of the road closure, it was deemed prudent to provide an information report to Council to advise of the pending road closure.

 

[BurlOak]

On Mississauga General Committee Agenda next week

Subject
Temporary Road Closure - Goreway Drive from Brandon Gate Drive to North City Limit (Ward 5)

Recommendation
That in accordance with the Temporary Road Closure By-law 0206-2016, Council be advised that Goreway Drive will be closed from Brandon Gate Drive to the North City Limit for a period of 12 to 15 months during the construction of the grade separation over the Canadian National (CN) Rail tracks. It is anticipated that the road closure will commence November 2018.

CN Rail recently indicated that the proposed temporary Goreway Drive detour road would require the relocation of switch gear assemblies/spur line tracks/structures etc., going into the busy intermodal terminal further north. Due to the difficulty obtaining the required time blocks to conduct the relocation, CN Rail stated that the track works alone would take at least 26 months 8.4 General Committee 2018/05/11 2 to complete and cost approximately $6.6 million. CN Rail requested both Mississauga and Brampton to consider closing Goreway Drive at the CN Rail tracks completely to road and pedestrian traffic during the 12 to 15 month construction period.

Staff estimates that the overall construction savings of closing the road is approximately $9.5 million, including the CN Works and a reduction in construction time of 24 months to complete the project. A Traffic Assessment of the closure of Goreway Drive completed in April 2018 concludes that a full closure over 12 to 15 months is feasible.

The Commissioner of Transportation and Works has the authority to close City roadways in accordance with Temporary Road Closure By-law 0206-2016. Given the class of roadway and the duration of the road closure, it was deemed prudent to provide an information report to Council to advise of the pending road closure.

Why not close the road for 3 months instead?

Look at MTO Highway 19 over 401.

At the start of the Detailed Design process, it was confirmed that by using accelerated construction techniques, the bridge construction reduces the amount of time the highway crossing is closed (approximately 3 months)

I think in reality, it was closer to a 2 month closure and it was a complete bridge replacement. Construction with relatively simple equipment, not the heavy SPMT's that were used on 417 at Carling, etc. in which the substructure remained.

http://www.ontla.on.ca/library/repository/mon/30001/333543.pdf

 

[johntauren]

Why not close the road for 3 months instead?

Because this is a brand new bridge replacing a level crossing over a fairly active freight line in the midst of a residential neighbourhood. You can't exactly speed-replace a bridge that doesn't exist.

Although... given how long Torbram grade separation has been going just a few km west...

 

[Kitsune]

Because this is a brand new bridge replacing a level crossing over a fairly active freight line in the midst of a residential neighbourhood. You can't exactly speed-replace a bridge that doesn't exist.

Although... given how long Torbram grade separation has been going just a few km west...

Not familiar with this... but found this: https://www.mississauga.com/news-st...n-budget-increase-for-torbram-road-underpass/. Seems the Torbram is a special case, everything from Bell not notifying them of a utility box underground to up express construction causing the train count to go from 4 to 30 a day.

 

[drum118]

Some months ago, had a look at Torbram grade separation and they finally had started to dig out the southbound lane on the north side of the Halton Sub, with most of the south side built for 4 lanes. Can't build the northbound lanes on the north side until traffic starts using the new southbound lanes.

They had just started form work on the pier support for the KW line and this well behind schedule.

Its been a dog breakfast for years dealing with 2 cities and different needs, as well CN and Metrolinx. It has always looked like all the ducks were missing to me.

 

[BurlOak]

Because this is a brand new bridge replacing a level crossing over a fairly active freight line in the midst of a residential neighbourhood. You can't exactly speed-replace a bridge that doesn't exist.

Although... given how long Torbram grade separation has been going just a few km west...

What's easier.

Remove existing infrastructure then build new infrastructure. or
Build new infrastructure.

It's the same process, but 1 step less (of course that removal is only a week or two worth of road closure).

 

[KevinT]

But anyone who has driven the 500 km from Thunder Bay to Kenora is well aware that the existing 2-lane highway is vastly under-utilized in peak season - with two parallel rail lines, I'm not sure we want to do something that would increase fossil fuel emissions over more environmentally-friendly railways and pipelines.

I'd love a once daily service where I could just park my car on a flatcar while riding ahead of it in a coach. I'd happily to pay to get to Vancouver or Halifax that way.

 

[BurlOak]

I'd love a once daily service where I could just park my car on a flatcar while riding ahead of it in a coach. I'd happily to pay to get to Vancouver or Halifax that way.

Bikes can do that on GO, so why can't you park your car on the flatbed for free while you ride in coach?

 

[W. K. Lis]

Bikes can do that on GO, so why can't you park your car on the flatbed for free while you ride in coach?

Maybe by the 22nd century, GO trains would carry automobiles from your station near your suburban home in North Bay to and from Toronto?