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High Speed Rail: London - Kitchener-Waterloo - Pearson Airport - Toronto

dowlingm said:
From the VIA Rail thread:
The Corporate Plan foresaw Sarnia runs being switched to the Woodstock route. Mind you, the Corp Plan probably thought the RDC trials were gonna go somewhere.
Click to expand...
I really don't follow VIA that closely but the first question I would have is were those corporate plans assuming more or less ridership from the larger centres like London and Kitchener.....because if there is a more modern, more frequent, high(er) speed alternative serving those cities' connections to Toronto then my point is I am not sure their plans survive with the loss of riders from those places.
 
TOareaFan said:
See @ShonTron 's reply after this. I believe the real worry here is how long will places like St. Mary's and Stratford have that service from VIA if there is no ridership being generated for VIA in the larger markets. That Sarnia to Toronto train stops in those markets on its way to Kitchener....if the HSR is siphoning off the ridership in places like Kitchener.....will that train keep running at all? Can VIA make a business out of being the guy who serves only the small markets.
Click to expand...

I made the same argument about how VIA’s HFR might harm service on the Toronto-Kingston-Ottawa/Montreal route, and was met with disbelief. But I’m still on that point and this is an even better case study of it. Both Stratford and St Marys politicians have been quite vocal about this.

Hopefully the EA will disclose more of Mr Collenette’s data regarding predicted ridership, and look at these other communities from that angle. And, we need a feeder bus plan to connect to smaller communitires in Perth and Bruce counties, which could contribute meaningful ridership also.

I wouldn’t be sorry if HSR were scaled back to just ‘better’ trains on the existing tracks, upgraded to all they can be without approaching anything with an H in it.

- Paul
 
Woodbridge_Heights said:
Invest all that money for a once a year event? Great idea.
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Once a year? VIA could fill a train daily for matinee performances, all season long. The difficulty is the counter-peak return to Toronto towards the dinner hour. More track will fix that, eventually.

There have been gala trains that only run annually, yes, but Stratford’s potential as a tourist destination for regular daily passengers is irrefutable.

- Paul
 
The historic town of St. Mary's southwest of Stratford towards London has a thriving tourist scene as well. It is located along the scenic Thames River and it's main street contains fine Victorian architecture. The town is famously home of the Canadian Baseball Hall of fame. Via Rail does operate a station in St. Mary's.
 
so we are going to be plopping some HSR stations in a town of 5,000 because it has some piddly little museum? Even Stratford is dubious - we are talking about a high speed rail line here meant for large city inter-regional travel. The amount of stations already proposed is fairly significant.
 
.... it is possible to plop a HSR station in a small town and have some trains skip the station if there is a reason for said station. I think St. Mary's would qualify for this.
 
The HSR line, if built, will go in a more or less straight line from Kitchener to London. It won't be stopping in St. Marys or Stratford. Conventional rail would continue to serve those towns though, feeding into the HSR line.
 
MisterF said:
The HSR line, if built, will go in a more or less straight line from Kitchener to London. It won't be stopping in St. Marys or Stratford. Conventional rail would continue to serve those towns though, feeding into the HSR line.
Click to expand...
Exactly. It's not just a matter of putting in a platform and stopping a few trains a day at it, it's also rerouting the entire line to service these tiny towns with a huge amount of transit infrastructure.
 
I have never backed this proposal and I don`t think it has ever had a solid business case behind it. It was a political ploy by Wynne to buy crucial SW votes in the last election and now due to it`s political beginnings it has become a political issue. This has become the province-wide version of the Scarborough subway extension.............the line no longer has any bearing on transportation planning but rather political aspirations.

This is why every little place along the line now wants a HSR stop. If Guelph gets a stop then why doesn`t Chatham the politicians will say and if Stratford gets one then why not St.Mary`s...............that major metropolitan centre of Glencoe will be the next in line for a HSR stop and at the rate things are progressing, they might just get it.

Due to all the politics involved in this proposal, this is going to end up being the slowest HSR line on the planet.
 
innsertnamehere said:
Exactly. It's not just a matter of putting in a platform and stopping a few trains a day at it, it's also rerouting the entire line to service these tiny towns with a huge amount of transit infrastructure.
Click to expand...

Actually, it's the reverse. It's *not* rerouting the line and *not* building a whole new line.

I think the Kitchener-London direct route is pretty clever, but I can't argue against improving the existing line instead - likely less money and more bang for the buck if these local communities can be served. And no pushback from Oxford County.

I just wonder what New Hamburg, Baden, and St Mary's will say when they realise what an upgraded line with frequent non-stopping trains will do to their peaceful small town streetscapes.

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
I made the same argument about how VIA’s HFR might harm service on the Toronto-Kingston-Ottawa/Montreal route, and was met with disbelief. But I’m still on that point and this is an even better case study of it. Both Stratford and St Marys politicians have been quite vocal about this.

Hopefully the EA will disclose more of Mr Collenette’s data regarding predicted ridership, and look at these other communities from that angle. And, we need a feeder bus plan to connect to smaller communitires in Perth and Bruce counties, which could contribute meaningful ridership also.

I wouldn’t be sorry if HSR were scaled back to just ‘better’ trains on the existing tracks, upgraded to all they can be without approaching anything with an H in it.

- Paul
Click to expand...

I have long maintained the HSR should have a stop at Stratford. Allows tourists to get to the Stratford festival. And will allow the town to become an ex-urb to Toronto and suburb to London and KWC.
 
MisterF said:
The HSR line, if built, will go in a more or less straight line from Kitchener to London. It won't be stopping in St. Marys or Stratford. Conventional rail would continue to serve those towns though, feeding into the HSR line.
Click to expand...

Would VIA still run conventional rail service when most of the passengers along that line could move to HSR? If they do run it as through HFR, why would they not use the HSR track to speed up service?

I just don't see the business case for a separate service. There's a better argument for an intermediate station at Stratford, that can have bus services other small towns nearby.
 
ssiguy2 said:
I have never backed this proposal and I don`t think it has ever had a solid business case behind it. It was a political ploy by Wynne to buy crucial SW votes in the last election and now due to it`s political beginnings it has become a political issue. This has become the province-wide version of the Scarborough subway extension.............the line no longer has any bearing on transportation planning but rather political aspirations.

This is why every little place along the line now wants a HSR stop. If Guelph gets a stop then why doesn`t Chatham the politicians will say and if Stratford gets one then why not St.Mary`s...............that major metropolitan centre of Glencoe will be the next in line for a HSR stop and at the rate things are progressing, they might just get it.

Due to all the politics involved in this proposal, this is going to end up being the slowest HSR line on the planet.
Click to expand...

So it'll go from being HSR to a really good HFR line? This is the worst case scenario? I'm still good with that.
 
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