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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

Leo_Chan said:
Now people are getting creative, Scarborough Subway Extension (Line 2) to UTSC, Sheppard East Subway Extension to UTSC, and Eglinton East LRT Extension to Malvern via Scarborough Town Centre. :eek:
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Its UT, people are creative with transit lines everyday since its conception and especially the last decade from those who have SSE phobia. But Ford wanting to tunnel the Crosstown does irk me and leaves a very small possibility the Crosstown plan could return to go up thru up to SCC . This kind of change jeopardizes ALL current projects and I highly doubt people will have tolerance for that at this juncture
 
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Hopkins123 said:
Anything is possible per new governance.

Eglinton-Scarborough combined LRT could be restored to SCC, Centennial and Malvern with the Bloor-Danforth getting extended to UTSC via Eglinton /Kingston /Morningside.
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  • I always imagined the B-D being extended to Kingston Road (intermediate stops at Brimley/Danforth and Eglinton GO).
  • A Kingston Road BRT would come from Durham and go to Vic Park Station.
  • The SRT would branch at Centennial - one branch to Malvern, one to UTSC.
 
BurlOak said:
  • I always imagined the B-D being extended to Kingston Road (intermediate stops at Brimley/Danforth and Eglinton GO).
  • A Kingston Road BRT would come from Durham and go to Vic Park Station.
  • The SRT would branch at Centennial - one branch to Malvern, one to UTSC.
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The BDL loop holds a strong consensus in Scarborough as the natural progression more than a line to Kingston/Eglinton

I really like the current plan were heading towards with
  • Full LRT on Eglinton from Malvern thru UTSC to the Airport
  • BDL loop
  • Ellesmere BRT into Durham.
I think an LRT spur thru the City Centre, thru Centennial College and meeting up with EELRT would make a great future line and may become very important once the Centre intensifies over the next few decades
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
Leave the Crosstown alone. 2 subways was enough. The Crosstown is going through to UTSC.
Don't you think the Subway would be empty past eglinton McCowan?
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Nope. Considering the combined ridership of 86/116/198 along Eglinton and Kingston, each stop en route methinks would be highly trafficked.
 
OneCity said:
The BDL loop holds a strong consensus in Scarborough as the natural progression more than a line to Kingston/Eglinton

I really like the current plan were heading towards with
  • Full LRT on Eglinton from Malvern thru UTSC to the Airport
  • BDL loop
  • Ellesmere BRT into Durham.
I think an LRT spur thru the City Centre, thru Centennial College and meeting up with EELRT would make a great future line and may become very important once the Centre intensifies over the next few decades
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That's a very circuitous way to get mass transit to Malvern, no? Couldn't imagine the duration of time it'd take to even get to Kennedy Stn from Malvern Town Centre if routing via UTSC. It's better to approach that Town Centre from the Town Centre (!), that way you're also serving Centennial College and new development lands at Bellamy and Milner/Markham/Sheppard.

The case benefit of what I was proposing though it makes the combined Eglinton-Scarborough LRT comes back on the table, fully grade-separated to boot. Like what you're suggesting Malvern residents would still get a direct one-seat ride to the Airport and the added demand from NE Scarborough justifies the need for full grade-separation right across Eglinton.

Any Bloor-Danforth expansion eastward vs. northward would still be a viable line, just serving a different niche. UTSC has almost 20,000 students and staff that'd feed into it, along with the density in West Hill, the two major GO connections and major cross-intersections like Markham-Eglinton and Danforth-Eglinton worth serving with higher-order transit.
 
OneCity said:
The BDL loop holds a strong consensus in Scarborough as the natural progression more than a line to Kingston/Eglinton

I really like the current plan were heading towards with
  • Full LRT on Eglinton from Malvern thru UTSC to the Airport
  • BDL loop
  • Ellesmere BRT into Durham.
I think an LRT spur thru the City Centre, thru Centennial College and meeting up with EELRT would make a great future line and may become very important once the Centre intensifies over the next few decades
Click to expand...
Here's what I think.

UTSC or Malvern to YYZ is a long trip - I would add a transfer to this - but likely much faster since rapid transit.
Sheppard subway is same as proposed.
I save $5B on SSE - goes towards Scarborough Gatineau Line.
I save $2B on EELRT - goes towards B-D extension to Kingston (road, not city).
Eg. LRT built as planned (I think it's quite late to change) instead of underground - save $2B - goes towards Scarborough Gatineau Line to UTSC.

If Scarborough was shown options, I am sure there is better that could be come up with. How to actually make the change and not suffer huge delays is a big concern.

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ShonTron said:
Strong consensus? Cite your sources.
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How do you find this worth questioning this at this stage? We have a Premier candidate currently running around yelling it at the front of his platform for Scarborough & seriously killing it here (again). All the Conservative & Liberal candidates are currently running on the Sheppard subway locally. Its really to the point our politicians have subways on their lawn signs in the Sheppard ridings. Torys and Fords previous pollster Kouvalis has his polls showing a 10% favorable for even the unfortunate one stop subway over LRT. Which obviously contradicts the Stars poll. But who would you believe? I think the polls telling all the winners of these elections and bi-elections telling them what to run on as the main campaign item might hold far more weight. The reality couldn't be more clear when we have an NDP councillor in Malvern East who is pro SSE. 99% of Scarborough elected politicians are pro subway and have their own internal polling...

The Sheppard and SCC subway was all ive ever heard from neighbours regarding transit since I moved here and Ive live in a couple different areas, most seem pissed that they haven't extended the loop and were seeing the clear politics to match. Those still talking transfer plans over the last 7 years always baffled me as there was zero chance once it was called out. Anyway the point was in the previous post is that ive really never heard anyone mention a subway extension to Eglinton/Kingston and not about this blatantly obvious support.
 
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Hopkins123 said:
That's a very circuitous way to get mass transit to Malvern, no? Couldn't imagine the duration of time it'd take to even get to Kennedy Stn from Malvern Town Centre if routing via UTSC. It's better to approach that Town Centre from the Town Centre (!), that way you're also serving Centennial College and new development lands at Bellamy and Milner/Markham/Sheppard.

The case benefit of what I was proposing though it makes the combined Eglinton-Scarborough LRT comes back on the table, fully grade-separated to boot. Like what you're suggesting Malvern residents would still get a direct one-seat ride to the Airport and the added demand from NE Scarborough justifies the need for full grade-separation right across Eglinton.

Any Bloor-Danforth expansion eastward vs. northward would still be a viable line, just serving a different niche. UTSC has almost 20,000 students and staff that'd feed into it, along with the density in West Hill, the two major GO connections and major cross-intersections like Markham-Eglinton and Danforth-Eglinton worth serving with higher-order transit.
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Not my first choice. Just mentioned I really like the current plan. We can pick apart every plan and its really not bad in its benefits. At some point we have to build and see great benefits

If you want my personal preference I would much rather have seen:
  • BDL Subway loop that goes on the ol' RT corridor thru Centennial to Malvern Town Centre and back to Sheppard
  • Eglinton East LRT to UTSC (preferred connect to Malvern as well)
  • Ellesmere BRT
 
BurlOak said:
Here's what I think.

UTSC or Malvern to YYZ is a long trip - I would add a transfer to this - but likely much faster since rapid transit.
Sheppard subway is same as proposed.
I save $5B on SSE - goes towards Scarborough Gatineau Line.
I save $2B on EELRT - goes towards B-D extension to Kingston (road, not city).
Eg. LRT built as planned (I think it's quite late to change) instead of underground - save $2B - goes towards Scarborough Gatineau Line to UTSC.

If Scarborough was shown options, I am sure there is better that could be come up with. How to actually make the change and not suffer huge delays is a big concern.

View attachment 143222
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OneCity said:
Not my first choice. Just mentioned I really like the current plan. We can pick apart every plan and its really not bad in its benefits. At some point we have to build and see great benefits

If you want my personal preference I would much rather have seen:
  • BDL Subway loop that goes on the ol' RT corridor thru Centennial to Malvern Town Centre and back to Sheppard
  • Eglinton East LRT to UTSC (preferred connect to Malvern as well)
  • Ellesmere BRT
Click to expand...
I do like the idea of that diagonal line through Scarborough, but:
  • I still say that Yonge-Bloor station is too busy. The transit plan should not have more people making the transfer here. The transfer LRT plan relied on all transfers happening at Y-B (as their second transfer). The B-D extension (SSE) relied on all transfers happening at Y-B, or possibly at the DRL at Pape - which we know will not be an ideal interchange due to space constraints and since we know it is harder to build an interchange station under an active line.
  • The B-D extension does not optimize existing infrastructure. Everything on the SRT is abandoned, including Kennedy Station. With an SRT alignment, this also means much longer period where the SRT is shut down.
There are 2 options better than SSE that essentially follow and use the SRT route.
  • The connected Eglinton-Scarborough LRT - which would have optional transfers at Kennedy and Y-E, but mostly at Science Centre - which is being built from scratch and can easily have a 3 platform design (dare I say Spanish Solution).
  • A whole new line through the Gatineau Hydro Corridor and the Don Valley, which provides a transfer free route (although some optional transfers exist with intersections of the other subway lines.
 
Amare said:
It's not, stop spreading misinformation.
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I think he was just excited. Its obviously not guaranteed but the possibility is looking to have a very high probability. The election will decide as Sheppard will most certainly gets bumped up to the front of the que and into design if Ford wins, otherwise if any other party wins its not going anywhere. The main reason Rob agreed to the Eglinton connection to SCC was to get the Sheppard subway approved. If Ford wins the subway loop, DRL gets built (and likely Yonge with pressure from York region), everything else is in the air. And from a Provincial standpoint that makes sense to let the City of Toronto stop yammering into paralysis about subways it cant fund and start focusing on local transit solutions only.
 
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