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2018 Ontario Provincial Election Discussion

A slanted opinion piece, but the chart is interesting- even in Quebec, which has the same manufacturing-heavy economy as Ontario, their poverty rates dropped.

Ontario's poverty numbers are growing again — the opposite of the rest of Canada

0426poverty.jpg


http://business.financialpost.com/o...wing-again-the-opposite-of-the-rest-of-canada

The challenge w/this is that it entirely pre-dates the minimum wage increase, it follows a period of sub-inflation increases to social assistance, it even predates the OHIP + program which came in last year.

So it may be a fair judgement of the latter McGuinty years or the early Wynne years, but it is surely not a judgement on Wynne's last 18 months as premier or her (or the NDP or GREENS) proposed policies.

In fact, it would be best be described as a judgement on pseudo-conservative policy, delivered with a dab of progressive rhetoric.
 
So it may be a fair judgement of the latter McGuinty years or the early Wynne years, but it is surely not a judgement on Wynne's last 18 months as premier or her (or the NDP or GREENS) proposed policies.
I think you mean its a fair judgement of Liberal governing. 15 years in power and you think the final 6 or 9 months when they are in panic mode is the true representation of how the Liberals work.
 
I think you mean its a fair judgement of Liberal governing. 15 years in power and you think the final 6 or 9 months when they are in panic mode is the true representation of how the Liberals work.

No.

If you've read my posts over the years, you should know by now I'm non-partisan and not particularly ideological.

My comment was specific to the graph on poverty, because its being used to excoriate public policy currently being discussed. (ie minimum wage)

Yet that current policy was not in effect in the period covered by the graph.

I object to disingenuous BS.

Criticize Wynne/McGuinty for any number of things they did or did not do.

But when you present a graph and then indict contemporary policy or platform that was not in effect during the graphed period, you're being dishonest, at best.

Be critical where it is justified (no shortage of spots); but do not produce evidence which does not support your conclusion and suggest otherwise in the hopes people are stupid.
 
Spadina Fort York had Rosario Marchese for a number of years. Han Dong, the current incumbent, is strong and I think well-liked, but he could lose on the wave of Liberal hate.

I think it's more accurate to say that *both* Spadina-Fort York *and* University-Rosedale are successors to Marchese's Trinity-Spadina. The present problem with SFY for the NDP is that way too much of it is recent condolandia...
 
I can't imagine that would improve with Doug at the helm.

I would say that the best bet for Progressive policies without the long baggage train of soft corruption, panic politicking and mismanagement would be the NDP plaform in that case. In this case, I think again that this will boil down to the ABF & ABW votes- if the NDP can be prove itself a contender, the balance of votes might tip its way. However, this will essentially require a massive publicity campaign to ensure that people know 1.) Horwath, 2.) The main planks of the platform and 3.) Their local NDP candidate.

Horwath top challenger to Ford in Ontario election: poll

A new poll suggests the outcome of Ontario's election will come down to which leader, rather than which party, can win voters' confidence -- with Andrea Horwath the top challenger to Doug Ford.
When it comes to the parties, however, the poll shows the Tories still in the lead with support from 43 per cent of participants.

The New Democrats and the Liberals are tied at 26 per cent.
When asked whether a Ford, Wynne or Horwath government would be disastrous for the province, only a third of those polled said yes for the NDP leader, compared with 44 per cent for Ford and 59 per cent for Wynne.
"At first people were saying when this all started that 'oh my god, the NDP could split the vote,' but right now maybe it's the Liberals that might split the left-of-centre vote," he said.
More than 1,000 Ontario residents eligible to vote in the election participated in the survey, which was conducted from last Friday to Monday.
Ontario voters go to the polls June 7.
https://www.cp24.com/news/horwath-top-challenger-to-ford-in-ontario-election-poll-1.3905690
 
No.

If you've read my posts over the years, you should know by now I'm non-partisan and not particularly ideological.

My comment was specific to the graph on poverty, because its being used to excoriate public policy currently being discussed. (ie minimum wage)

Yet that current policy was not in effect in the period covered by the graph.

I object to disingenuous BS.

Criticize Wynne/McGuinty for any number of things they did or did not do.

But when you present a graph and then indict contemporary policy or platform that was not in effect during the graphed period, you're being dishonest, at best.

Be critical where it is justified (no shortage of spots); but do not produce evidence which does not support your conclusion and suggest otherwise in the hopes people are stupid.
It would be nice to have instantaneous graphs, but the reality is that it take a couple of years to compile and publish these things. Maybe a new government that's been in for a year you argue there's no data, but for the Liberals, we have 13 years of data showing what they are about.
 
It would be nice to have instantaneous graphs, but the reality is that it take a couple of years to compile and publish these things. Maybe a new government that's been in for a year you argue there's no data, but for the Liberals, we have 13 years of data showing what they are about.
Just like the current hospital over crowding. Who's to blame for that if not the governing Liberals?
 
It would be nice to have instantaneous graphs, but the reality is that it take a couple of years to compile and publish these things. Maybe a new government that's been in for a year you argue there's no data, but for the Liberals, we have 13 years of data showing what they are about.

That's fine, but you can't use that graph to critique a different set of policies that are now in effect.

No one is protecting the Liberals from criticism.

But match the correct evidence to the correct criticism.
 
Just like the current hospital over crowding. Who's to blame for that if not the governing Liberals?

There is no question the Liberals are responsible as a collective unit for any policy (or lack of) that could be reasonably ascribed to the Government of Ontario, during their time in power.

However, there is also no question they have (recently) changed directions on many of those same policies.

Yes, that does smack of electioneering, no that is not ideal, to put it charitably.

However, if one says 'The Liberals mucked up this file for 'x' years; and are only making belated corrective efforts to hold on to power, therefore I wish to vote them out....

(a perfectly reasonable position)

One must then turn to the alternatives on offer and ask two basic questions. Do they have a better policy on offer? Do we find the skill set or character of the alternative such that we believe
they can deliver a better policy, and better government?

You can not with a straight face, say either about Doug Ford, or the PC campaign to date under his leadership.

That might be deeply depressing to you (or many of us) but its so.

There is no coherent or costed policy on offer on any file. No explanation as to how anything would be done differently or more efficiently, or where additional money would come from to pay for existing
or additional investments.

That alone is damning. But Mr. Ford, the man of giant Ferris Wheels, subways to nowhere, and someone with a past that can only be described at sketchy, not only adds nothing positive to the picture,
he detracts from the dearth of good public policy by assuring you that he won't come up with any, and that his character inspires slightly less trust than the typical purveyor of used cars.

To say the Liberals offer a better alternative than Doug Ford is to damn w/faint praise; but there you go.
 
However, this will essentially require a massive publicity campaign to ensure that people know 1.) Horwath, 2.) The main planks of the platform and 3.) Their local NDP candidate.
Local candidate is pretty meaningless for a change election. It’s always about the leader. Think of all the fence posts that got voted in by Mulroney and Layton
 
Local candidate is pretty meaningless for a change election. It’s always about the leader. Think of all the fence posts that got voted in by Mulroney and Layton
Leader or Party. It's 2 successive Liberal leaders have been terrible. It is obviously the party that has rotted, not just the 1 individual on the top.
 

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