St Lawrence Market

[DSC]

Now, if only they could bully the merchants into sensible hours.

If the total hours stayed the same, but they closed Mon-Tues and opened Sundays. and Shifted Saturday hours 2 hours later.

That would be most welcome.

This has been discussed at length and the arguments for the existing arrangement (i.e. two days closed) is that (some) merchants are families who need two days off together. On Saturdays they open at 5am because Farmers' market opens then and there are a surprising number of customers there by 6am. Personally i wish they opened Sundays and were only closed Mondays but ....

 

[Skeezix]

Now, if only they could bully the merchants into sensible hours.

LOL

If the total hours stayed the same, but they closed Mon-Tues and opened Sundays.

and

Shifted Saturday hours 2 hours later.

That would be most welcome.

This has been discussed at length and the arguments for the existing arrangement (i.e. two days closed) is that (some) merchants are families who need two days off together. On Saturdays they open at 5am because Farmers' market opens then and there are a surprising number of customers there by 6am. Personally i wish they opened Sundays and were only closed Mondays but ....

I've complained about the Market hours here before. And while I agree that the needs of the merchants need to be considered, the Market is a tremendously important public and tourist amenity in this city, and the fact that it is closed on Sundays makes it less accessible to many residents of this city. This is not a decision that should be left entirely at the discretion of the merchants, as it has until now. I agree with @Northern Light - the time has long passed for them to be open on Sundays (and possibly close on Tuesdays to make up the time).

 

[Northern Light]

This has been discussed at length and the arguments for the existing arrangement (i.e. two days closed) is that (some) merchants are families who need two days off together. On Saturdays they open at 5am because Farmers' market opens then and there are a surprising number of customers there by 6am. Personally i wish they opened Sundays and were only closed Mondays but ....

I'm entirely sympathetic to having 2 days off; but the businesses can hire non-family staff, part-time or otherwise to work the Sunday.

Shifting Saturday hours is a straight math question to me.

Will the market be busier at 4:30pm than at 5:30am?

I feel the answer is a near certain yes.

I don't see how working the same number of hours, just slightly later will have a materially negative impact on most folks.

 

[deerparker]

IF I remember correctly, that article is from 2011. It gets trotted out every now And again on sites like BlogTO.

It's also advertised on lamppost banners outside the market. In 'shabby public realm' fashion, most of the banners have been missing for a couple of years with no apparent move to repair/replace them.

 

[grey]

I'm entirely sympathetic to having 2 days off; but the businesses can hire non-family staff, part-time or otherwise to work the Sunday.

Shifting Saturday hours is a straight math question to me.

Will the market be busier at 4:30pm than at 5:30am?

I feel the answer is a near certain yes.

I don't see how working the same number of hours, just slightly later will have a materially negative impact on most folks.

Every Thursday and Friday at closing time, vendors are eager to shutter while fending off hordes of shoppers trying to make last-minute purchases. So, I think we may be underestimating the value of personal time.

 

[Skeezix]

Every Thursday and Friday at closing time, vendors are eager to shutter while fending off hordes of shoppers trying to make last-minute purchases. So, I think we may be underestimating the value of personal time.

I don't think anyone here is underestimating the value of personal time, or for that matter the strong desire of people at the end of a work shift to finish that shift and get away. The fact that the merchants have voted down Sunday openings repeatedly since the 1990s makes clear that they value personal time.

I just don't think it should be the only consideration in determining when one of the city's prime amenities should be open.

 

[grey]

I completely agree that it should remain open longer. I struggle to explain why they wouldn't want to, and am further frustrated by the fact that the hated Metro across the street has long lines during the Market's precious operating hours.

 

[PinkLucy]

I'm entirely sympathetic to having 2 days off; but the businesses can hire non-family staff, part-time or otherwise to work the Sunday.

Shifting Saturday hours is a straight math question to me.

Will the market be busier at 4:30pm than at 5:30am?

I feel the answer is a near certain yes.

I don't see how working the same number of hours, just slightly later will have a materially negative impact on most folks.

Yes and no. We had a family business for a lot of years. Sunday opening changed things for our family because we didn't get a day off. In terms of sales, it didn't change anything, it just spread 6 days' worth of sales out over 7. That would probably be different in the Market, however.

Sure you can hire someone, but in a small business, you need to be there yourself if you want to succeed -- granted, we didn't have the crowds that the Market has! Even with staff, we were at the business every day apart from vacation -- which was never more than a few days at a time. Also, lots of small family run businesses don't make a whole lot of extra money with which to hire extra staff so they can enjoy personal time. (Our personal time away from the store was spent doing the books and admin work, which again are things we could have hired out but with slim profit margins, you think twice about that.)

As a customer, I'd love expanded hours at the Market. As a former small family-run business owner, I get why it hasn't happened.

 

[Skeezix]

Yes and no. We had a family business for a lot of years. Sunday opening changed things for our family because we didn't get a day off. In terms of sales, it didn't change anything, it just spread 6 days' worth of sales out over 7. That would probably be different in the Market, however.

Sure you can hire someone, but in a small business, you need to be there yourself if you want to succeed -- granted, we didn't have the crowds that the Market has! Even with staff, we were at the business every day apart from vacation -- which was never more than a few days at a time. Also, lots of small family run businesses don't make a whole lot of extra money with which to hire extra staff so they can enjoy personal time. (Our personal time away from the store was spent doing the books and admin work, which again are things we could have hired out but with slim profit margins, you think twice about that.)

As a customer, I'd love expanded hours at the Market. As a former small family-run business owner, I get why it hasn't happened.

I get why it hasn't happened too. No family wants to work 7 days a week if they can avoid it. And your comments about extra staff are well taken.

But I would say two things.

St. Lawrence Market isn't the butcher shop on the Danforth, or the grocery store on St. Clair. It is a public asset. Accessibility of Torontonians to their market is an important consideration. I don't think this is a decision that should ever have been left solely to the merchants, although the views of the merchants should weigh heavily.

Second, there can be a balance. The market has always been closed Mondays - it can be closed on Tuesdays too. I get that for many merchants, they'd prefer to be off Sunday than on Tuesday. But there is a reality to operating a retail business in 2018, particularly where there are public interest considerations. Sunday hours need not be the same as Saturday (the place could close at noon or 1 p.m., for example, or open later in the morning), as long as Torontonians have some meaningful alternative to the one weekend day that has been available to them since Sunday shopping came to Ontario 20+ years ago.

 

[toonderly]

The former Burger King space is going to be a Popeye’s. And F45 is also going into the vacant space on the east sid of Sherbourne between Adelaide and Richmond.

Where the Kwik Kopy used to be? It's been empty for quite a while; I noticed some kind of activity there recently, but I don't see that location in the list of studios "opening soon" on the F45 website.

 

[PEC]

Where the Kwik Kopy used to be? It's been empty for quite a while; I noticed some kind of activity there recently, but I don't see that location in the list of studios "opening soon" on the F45 website.

Seems like I had wrong information. The former Kwik Kopy space is going to be "9 Round Kickboxing". There will only be one F45 location in St. Lawrence on Front Street.

 

[TheSix]

The market has always been closed Mondays - it can be closed on Tuesdays too. I get that for many merchants, they'd prefer to be off Sunday than on Tuesday. But there is a reality to operating a retail business in 2018, particularly where there are public interest considerations. Sunday hours need not be the same as Saturday (the place could close at noon or 1 p.m., for example, or open later in the morning), as long as Torontonians have some meaningful alternative to the one weekend day that has been available to them since Sunday shopping came to Ontario 20+ years ago.

From what I understand, the market is closed on Sunday because of Sunday Church. Not that I agree here, but this was how it was explained to me when I had this debate with a farmer. However, I think this schedule might not be as applicable to today's modern day vendors of the St. Lawrence Market. I am not sure how many are still classified as occupational "farmers". This might be more true for the more traditional Sat. farmer's market to the South.

 

[DSC]

From what I understand, the market is closed on Sunday because of Sunday Church. Not that I agree here, but this was how it was explained to me when I had this debate with a farmer. However, I think this schedule might not be as applicable to today's modern day vendors of the St. Lawrence Market. I am not sure how many are still classified as occupational "farmers". This might be more true for the more traditional Sat. farmer's market to the South.

No doubt the Market was "always" closed on Sundays (just as virtually everything was). Unlike 90% of stores they never moved to 6 (or 7) days of opening. As has been discussed ad nauseam the current rationale (whether you believe it or not) is that the great majority of Market vendors are family run places and the families want to have 2 consecutive days off each week. The "South Market" vendors are NOT farmers though many in the "North Market (now south of the South Market in the tent) are.

 

[DSC]

Just posted by the St Lawrence Neighbourhood Assn, www.slna.ca

A Public Statement from the SLNA
For more than 35 years, the St. Lawrence Neighbourhood Association has played a significant role in shaping new developments in the south east end of the downtown core of Toronto. As a progressive neighbourhood association, we continue to welcome new developments that enhance our city, while at the same time maintaining a vigilant and protective watch over the limited but important heritage assets in this area. Working in partnership with the city, developers and community partners we have helped to make the St. Lawrence neighbourhood one of the most attractive and historically significant areas of Toronto, if not the country.

Unfortunately last week the city made a decision to permit a plan that will seriously damage the heritage fabric of our area while eliminating two heritage buildings from a section of the "original 10 blocks" where our city began. The area of concern is located between 254 - 266 King St. E., 427 - 435 Adelaide St. E. and 156 Princess Street.

Following is the SLNA's public statement on this matter and we encourage our neighbourhood residents to voice their concerns to our interim Councillor, Lucy Troisi.

STATEMENT

Cities that make historic preservation a priority are among the great cities in our world today. Paris, New York, London are memorable places for residents and visitors a like, in part because of their outstanding historic buildings. That desire for historic preservation is or was here in Toronto. It has taken courage and vigilance to protect the "original 10 blocks" where the largest city in Canada began. Between Berkeley and George is where the people of the Town of York first established homes and businesses for what would one day become Toronto and this week a decision was made to permit the demolition and destruction of the heritage fabric that had been so carefully protected by city leaders like our former councillor for Ward 28, the late Pam McConnell.

Unfortunately, the community and the opinion of professional planners was ignored and a plan was confirmed that will cut a swath through the heritage core of our city and that can never be recovered.

We recognize the value of new developments and both celebrate and welcome new design and shapes in our neighbourhood and across the city. But we have the expertise and ability to build with intelligence and sensitivity so that the heritage focal points and areas of the city are not unnecessarily obliterated in the process.
The St. Lawrence Neighbourhood Association is the last line of defence for protecting this significant corner of our city's heritage core, but sadly without local political leadership on this matter we are at a terrible disadvantage. Toronto we have to do better at protecting our heritage legacy if we are truly to be a great city.

 

[Northern Light]

Just posted by the St Lawrence Neighbourhood Assn, www.slna.ca

A Public Statement from the SLNA
For more than 35 years, the St. Lawrence Neighbourhood Association has played a significant role in shaping new developments in the south east end of the downtown core of Toronto. As a progressive neighbourhood association, we continue to welcome new developments that enhance our city, while at the same time maintaining a vigilant and protective watch over the limited but important heritage assets in this area. Working in partnership with the city, developers and community partners we have helped to make the St. Lawrence neighbourhood one of the most attractive and historically significant areas of Toronto, if not the country.

Unfortunately last week the city made a decision to permit a plan that will seriously damage the heritage fabric of our area while eliminating two heritage buildings from a section of the "original 10 blocks" where our city began. The area of concern is located between 254 - 266 King St. E., 427 - 435 Adelaide St. E. and 156 Princess Street.

Following is the SLNA's public statement on this matter and we encourage our neighbourhood residents to voice their concerns to our interim Councillor, Lucy Troisi.

STATEMENT

Cities that make historic preservation a priority are among the great cities in our world today. Paris, New York, London are memorable places for residents and visitors a like, in part because of their outstanding historic buildings. That desire for historic preservation is or was here in Toronto. It has taken courage and vigilance to protect the "original 10 blocks" where the largest city in Canada began. Between Berkeley and George is where the people of the Town of York first established homes and businesses for what would one day become Toronto and this week a decision was made to permit the demolition and destruction of the heritage fabric that had been so carefully protected by city leaders like our former councillor for Ward 28, the late Pam McConnell.

Unfortunately, the community and the opinion of professional planners was ignored and a plan was confirmed that will cut a swath through the heritage core of our city and that can never be recovered.

We recognize the value of new developments and both celebrate and welcome new design and shapes in our neighbourhood and across the city. But we have the expertise and ability to build with intelligence and sensitivity so that the heritage focal points and areas of the city are not unnecessarily obliterated in the process.
The St. Lawrence Neighbourhood Association is the last line of defence for protecting this significant corner of our city's heritage core, but sadly without local political leadership on this matter we are at a terrible disadvantage. Toronto we have to do better at protecting our heritage legacy if we are truly to be a great city.

TY for keeping us all up to date on the goings-on in your neck of the woods (as always).

Any update on the latest bad streetlighting move by hydro (wrong polls, not consistent w/master plan) ?

Wellington Streetscape?

Any notion of when the next pedestrian priority streetscape road (a la Market Street) will be done? (I hear Scott and Colborne were in the plans) ?

Thanks for any further updates!