SmartTrack (Proposed)

[salsa]

Thinking about this more, I think a Skytrain-style elevated guideway would actually 'enhance' the walkability of suburban Eglinton -- a modern guideway provides optional shelter from the sun & rain if you want to walk underneath it -- and I agree there's been a huge increase of pedestrians underneath Skytrain lines, which show that a modern guideway can be integrated well into a suburban landscape, and be an attraction into itself for pedestrians. The Shanghai-style would be too much clutter, but the Skytrain-style would be perfectly fine in low-density suburbania, especially if a nice pedestrian walkway is well-integrated underneath. And the 30-year-old Skytrain guideways have survived pretty well, probably not going to go into true ugliness anytime soon if maintained well. And nowadays, they can put a nice continuous strip of nice LED lighting to brightly illuminate the path at night, too.

One big question I do have, is how wide the guideway needs to be for heavy rail, versus SkyTrain technology. Another big question is I know that way more salt is used in Toronto than Vancouver, so that can age a concrete structure faster. Another big question is the extra noise of heavy rail technology over SkyTrain style technology. They could ban salt from the raised structures, however, and perhaps limit speed past residental areas in the late evenings (with adjusted timetables), so there are solutions.

It would take time to convince Toronto, though. A good marketing campaign is needed, to show the pluses of the slim Skytrain guideway versus ugly-crumbling Gardiner. Also, good 'realistic' concept art is needed, and promises of never using salt on the raised structures, plus pictures of Skytrain at its best.

Chopping the Eglinton spur would be quite fine with me, replacing it with an ECLRT extension to Square One, but if we're essentially installing a new grade-separated line down Eglinton, I see a Skytrain-style slim elevated line actually benefitting suburban Eglinton.

All that doesn't change the fact that the extra cost of elevating the LRT is not justified given the low projected ridership, nor is it a huge improvement in travel time. I can't believe how many times this debate has been rehashed.

 

[sixrings]

I'm happy to have anything get to the airport so I'm fine with elevated. But then why not have just elevated the east and connect it to the srt. Ford's underground lrt plan was a waste of finances but the srt to subway conversion is a bigger financial mess.

 

[M II A II R II K]

Eglinton West a glaring flaw in John Tory’s SmartTrack plan

Read More: http://www.thestar.com/opinion/comm...aring-flaw-in-john-torys-smarttrack-plan.html

.....

His plan used existing GO tracks everywhere except in the west, where it proposed to build a new heavy-rail “surface subway†running merrily alongside Eglinton deep into Mississauga. The problem: that right-of-way no longer exists.

- The deep green boulevard that for so long bordered the northern edge of Eglinton between the Humber River and Highway 427 was created originally to accommodate the (mercifully) unbuilt Richview Expressway. And as the SmartTrackers knew, it was ripe for a surface subway. But what they didn’t know is that the Ford council had declared it surplus and Build Toronto has been carving it up and selling it off ever since.

.....

 

[BurlOak]

Another problem with elevated or undergrounud stations is that elevators (and escalators) are required for accessibility. Sounds fine, but I have been in stations where the escalators and/or elevators are out-of-service, sometimes for weeks, if not months. Sometimes it is planned (see this link), but sometimes it is not planned (see this link), or worse the unreported outages.

Maybe once all the transit stations get at least one elevator, they'll start on duplicating them for out-of-service situations.

Also why they prefer the center platforms for stations, only need one set of elevators/escalators to serve both directions, at a lower cost. Will the Eglinton West portion be center platform, to save on the cost of elevators, or go for the more expensive side platforms?

I see a south side alignment in Scarborough and north in Etobicoke. It would be centre platform, with possible pedestrian bridge across Eglinton joining the mezzanine level. Those who need elevator need to cross the street to access the single set of elevators

 

[BurlOak]

All that doesn't change the fact that the extra cost of elevating the LRT is not justified given the low projected ridership, nor is it a huge improvement in travel time. I can't believe how many times this debate has been rehashed.

It comes up mainly to save money. There is not enough support for the on street LRT or for unnecessary transfers. The solutions are elevated,or full scale subway. There are also a few who support the transit city plan, they are really just delaying the ultimate subway decision and causing even more money to be wasted.

 

[BurlOak]

Well, the SRT is elevated, and the Scarborough LRT would have been elevated, including a new elevated extension up to Sheppard and up to Malvern. The UPX has an elevated section too. Maybe SmartTrack will have an elevated section. Parts of the subway are elevated: Bloor in the west and Spadina line through 401 area.

The facts seem to show that Torontonians are perfectly fine with elevated. It is viewed as futuristic, while on street rail transit is viewed as 19th century (maybe 20th if not horse pulled). It is transit planners and politicians who don't like it, because they are trying to reinvent the city or delay decisions instead of giving the people what they want.

 

[CDL.TO]

I see a south side alignment in Scarborough and north in Etobicoke. It would be centre platform, with possible pedestrian bridge across Eglinton joining the mezzanine level. Those who need elevator need to cross the street to access the single set of elevators

Please no mezzanine level and no skybridges! I support building elevated, but there should be an explicit goal to make the footprint of the stations as small and unintrusive as possible!

Let's stick with Canada Line stations as a model.

 

[44 North]

Well, the SRT is elevated, and the Scarborough LRT would have been elevated, including a new elevated extension up to Sheppard and up to Malvern. The UPX has an elevated section too. Maybe SmartTrack will have an elevated section. Parts of the subway are elevated: Bloor in the west and Spadina line through 401 area.

Good points. And I may've posted this somewhere, but it's a good image in that it shows the sections of a Lakeshore RER/RT service that would be considered elevated. It's from the DRTES, and naturally much of SmartTrack would be using this same corridor and new infrastructure. Clearly embankments, retaining walls, and bridges also fit the definition of "elevated". And I think if most had the choice, a concrete guideway offering accessibility below would be more preferable than a concrete wall. The proposals for new grade-separations will be interesting to watch.

 

[Palma]

Eglinton West a glaring flaw in John Tory’s SmartTrack plan

Read More: http://www.thestar.com/opinion/comm...aring-flaw-in-john-torys-smarttrack-plan.html

.....

His plan used existing GO tracks everywhere except in the west, where it proposed to build a new heavy-rail “surface subway” running merrily alongside Eglinton deep into Mississauga. The problem: that right-of-way no longer exists.

- The deep green boulevard that for so long bordered the northern edge of Eglinton between the Humber River and Highway 427 was created originally to accommodate the (mercifully) unbuilt Richview Expressway. And as the SmartTrackers knew, it was ripe for a surface subway. But what they didn’t know is that the Ford council had declared it surplus and Build Toronto has been carving it up and selling it off ever since.

.....

So why does the city not out a stop to the selling? Besides, if they expropriate what has already been sold, would that still not be less expensive than having to tunnel?

 

[nfitz]

So why does the city not out a stop to the selling? Besides, if they expropriate what has already been sold, would that still not be less expensive than having to tunnel?

Perhaps because it makes no sense for a forecast demand of less than 1,000 passengers an hour in the peak AM period heading eastbound.

 

[Palma]

Perhaps because it makes no sense for a forecast demand of less than 1,000 passengers an hour in the peak AM period heading eastbound.

But even if not SmartTrack but the LRT extending west, they would need that land. Its the same as those houses built on St Clair West near Gunns Road. How can the streetcar be extended with those houses there. Never any thought to the future

 

[sixrings]

Pretty sure the st clair street car can be extended.

 

[LNahid2000]

Its the same as those houses built on St Clair West near Gunns Road. How can the streetcar be extended with those houses there. Never any thought to the future

Looks like they left enough room to add a lane.

http://goo.gl/maps/x9AVf

 

[junctionist]

Looks like they left enough room to add a lane.

http://goo.gl/maps/x9AVf

They did, but there's no room for the ROW west of Symes Road because of buildings from various decades.

 

[nfitz]

But even if not SmartTrack but the LRT extending west, they would need that land. Its the same as those houses built on St Clair West near Gunns Road. How can the streetcar be extended with those houses there. Never any thought to the future

What are you referring to? The Eglinton LRT was approved in an EA. The land required for the EA was already owned by the city, and still is. It's the swath of adjacent land that council in 2011 approved be sold for development.