Toronto Eglinton Line 5 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[innsertnamehere]

No it's not. First station will be at Lawrence.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

No it's not. First station will be at Lawrence.

How are you going to justify no stops between Kennedy and Danforth Road? And how can you guarantee it's not, just because it's never on mock maps? And how would you tell people to keep going to Kennedy of the subway goes on Eglinton for a few km from Kennedy to Danforth? Does not make sense.

 

[BurlOak]

That's the plan if the use the McCowan route. Kennedy to McCowan Road is a bit of a hike on foot.

As far as I know, The Provincial "Murray" subway plan has one station at Lawrence (East) and one at Scarborough City Centre. This could be done for the cost of about $2.5B - cost cost of replacing the SRT and extending it to Sheppard as per Transit City. If they can use the new money (Federal and City contribution of a combined $1.5B), they claim they could extend this subway with Stations at Centennial College and Sheppard (near Markham Road) (http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pdf/20130910_Scarborough_Subway_Feasibility_Study.pdf). There were discussions about the accuracy of their estimates, but that was their proposal.

The TTC "City" plan, which Council voted for and the Federal and City money was earmarked for, had the subway following the McCowan route with Stations at Lawrence (farther East), Scarborough City Centre (but maybe a McCowan) and Sheppard.

We know that the debate will be opened again when they begin to discuss the details of the routes. The two things that they will find are:

1. There is not enough money for the station at Brimley - the station would have to be in a curve and additional property and complexity would be needed to fit in a tangent section near Brimley to allow for a station.
2. There will not be a station at Scarborough City Centre since it would be much too difficult to curve away from McCowan and then curve back again.

The LRT Councillors will push for the Transit City Plan, while Stintz will push for more "revenue tools" to add these extra goodies to her beloved OneCity route. Ford will just support any plan that gets grade-separated transit to SCC, without offering anything intelligent to the debate. We all know there is a less expensive solution that would be acceptable to the public, transit experts, and most Councillors, but none of the current leaders will propose it.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

As far as I know, The Provincial "Murray" subway plan has one station at Lawrence (East) and one at Scarborough City Centre. This could be done for the cost of about $2.5B - cost cost of replacing the SRT and extending it to Sheppard as per Transit City. If they can use the new money (Federal and City contribution of a combined $1.5B), they claim they could extend this subway with Stations at Centennial College and Sheppard (near Markham Road) (http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pdf/20130910_Scarborough_Subway_Feasibility_Study.pdf). There were discussions about the accuracy of their estimates, but that was their proposal.

The TTC "City" plan, which Council voted for and the Federal and City money was earmarked for, had the subway following the McCowan route with Stations at Lawrence (farther East), Scarborough City Centre (but maybe a McCowan) and Sheppard.

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We know that the debate will be opened again when they begin to discuss the details of the routes. The two things that they will find are:

1. There is not enough money for the station at Brimley - the station would have to be in a curve and additional property and complexity would be needed to fit in a tangent section near Brimley to allow for a station.
2. There will not be a station at Scarborough City Centre since it would be much too difficult to curve away from McCowan and then curve back again.

The LRT Councillors will push for the Transit City Plan, while Stintz will push for more "revenue tools" to add these extra goodies to her beloved OneCity route. Ford will just support any plan that gets grade-separated transit to SCC, without offering anything intelligent to the debate. We all know there is a less expensive solution that would be acceptable to the public, transit experts, and most Councillors, but none of the current leaders will propose it.

I have to disagree with that. Having a Brimley/Danforth Station is warrented to the density of the area (relative to Scarborough). You also Can't tell people to go to Kennedy when come on to Eglinton, they will demand a stop rather than just going to Kennedy. Of course it will add to the cost but they should do this right. I think this plan is becoming too expensive for my tastes anyway. As for STC, I figured as much. There was no way they would such a tight curve into the building. it would also be way more difficult to bring it to Sheppard.

 

[innsertnamehere]

you do realize that the TBMs don't have to follow McCowen right? The TBMs only have to align at Lawrence & McCowen, STC, and Sheppard & McCowen. To get an STC station the TBMs can slowly swerve off into the subdivisions after Lawrence to line up properly with STC, and a similar thing can be done with Brimley, where it doesn't turn off exactly at McCowen but can do so a bit furth along and simply meet up with McCowen again at Lawrence.

 

[ehlow]

I have to disagree with that. Having a Brimley/Danforth Station is warrented to the density of the area (relative to Scarborough). You also Can't tell people to go to Kennedy when come on to Eglinton, they will demand a stop rather than just going to Kennedy. Of course it will add to the cost but they should do this right. I think this plan is becoming too expensive for my tastes anyway. As for STC, I figured as much. There was no way they would such a tight curve into the building. it would also be way more difficult to bring it to Sheppard.

I don't know this area very well, but doesn't it make more sense to have the subway stop at McCowan & Ellesmere anyways? Generally I prefer rapid transit lines & stops be along major roads without diverting. Is this mall worth moving the station from a major intersection from?

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

you do realize that the TBMs don't have to follow McCowen right? The TBMs only have to align at Lawrence & McCowen, STC, and Sheppard & McCowen. To get an STC station the TBMs can slowly swerve off into the subdivisions after Lawrence to line up properly with STC, and a similar thing can be done with Brimley, where it doesn't turn off exactly at McCowen but can do so a bit furth along and simply meet up with McCowen again at Lawrence.

So I take it you do not think it's a good idea to put a station at Brimley? So you're taking Eglinton East and you still have to go to Kennedy when the subway is already under Eglinton for a few kms? I think Metrolinx will disagree.

I don't know this area very well, but doesn't it make more sense to have the subway stop at McCowan & Ellesmere anyways? Generally I prefer rapid transit lines & stops be along major roads without diverting. Is this mall worth moving the station from a major intersection from?

Yes it would, but it would be farther from the station. Putting it under STC is better for connectivity. We'll see once to EA comes out.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Den, I'm fine with a station at Brimley, but it simply isn't in the plans.

 

[Adjei]

I think after they conduct the EA they will see a need to put a station at Brimley and Eglinton due to the distance between the station at Kennedy and Lawrence and McCowan is too much (4.3 km). I don't think there is such a great distance between any two stations on the TTC subway system. This will shoot up the costs. What will happen then?

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I think after they conduct the EA they will see a need to put a station at Brimley and Eglinton due to the distance between the station at Kennedy and Lawrence and McCowan is too much (4.3 km). I don't think there is such a great distance between any two stations on the TTC subway system. This will shoot up the costs. What will happen then?

I bet the debate goes back to council. They really either need to build the subway in the SRT median, or go back to the SRT itself. The cost of this thing will get to 5 billion soon. And since you brought up the distance, someone will bring up Scarborough Malvern on city council I hope!

 

[BurlOak]

I bet the debate goes back to council. They really either need to build the subway in the SRT median, or go back to the SRT itself. The cost of this thing will get to 5 billion soon. And since you brought up the distance, someone will bring up Scarborough Malvern on city council I hope!

The SRT closure was one of the main problems with the Transit City plan and it is the reason why nobody liked the SRT Subway route. That was a terrible idea that I think the Province admits was a waste of time and money to come up with. From Steve Munro, Metrolinx is even assuming that the Kennedy Station(s) will follow the City McCowan route.

Metrolinx appears to assume that the Scarborough Subway will take the “City” route east along Eglinton and north via McCowan

http://stevemunro.ca/?p=9038

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

The SRT closure was one of the main problems with the Transit City plan and it is the reason why nobody liked the SRT Subway route. That was a terrible idea that I think the Province admits was a waste of time and money to come up with. From Steve Munro, Metrolinx is even assuming that the Kennedy Station(s) will follow the City McCowan route.



http://stevemunro.ca/?p=9038

Yeah,

The recommended route will not be known for at least a year until the Scarborough Subway EA looks at the two schemes in detail, but Metrolinx plans to finalize the tender that will include Kennedy LRT station before the EA is completed.

So they favor that for now, we won't know for sure until the EA comes out. It is Glen Murray's idea after all. Personally I think this is not the end of this debate by a long shot.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I think after they conduct the EA they will see a need to put a station at Brimley and Eglinton due to the distance between the station at Kennedy and Lawrence and McCowan is too much (4.3 km). I don't think there is such a great distance between any two stations on the TTC subway system. This will shoot up the costs. What will happen then?

its 3.6km, and while it will be the longest distance between stations, Kennedy - Warden (the current longest) is 2.6km, so long distances between stations isn't unheard of. when you get up to that sort of distance underground you simply have to stick some emergency evacuation access points along the line, which are needed for essentially any length over 1km. (there are a couple on the spadina extension as well)

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Yeah,

So they favor that for now, we won't know for sure until the EA comes out. It is Glen Murray's idea after all. Personally I think this is not the end of this debate by a long shot.

Steve did mention that we won't know the full cost of the subway until the EA is done. Back in the summer I remember some at Council were fearful that when the EA is finalized we'd find that the true costs of the project would be significantly higher than budget for. If that is true then we'll probably end up with a shorter route to STC. Lets just hope that the TTCs estimate was spot on.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

its 3.6km, and while it will be the longest distance between stations, Kennedy - Warden (the current longest) is 2.6km, so long distances between stations isn't unheard of. when you get up to that sort of distance underground you simply have to stick some emergency evacuation access points along the line, which are needed for essentially any length over 1km. (there are a couple on the spadina extension as well)

3.6 km is ridiculous spacing. Especially since Brimely Station would be incredibly important for the many people who live and work along Eglinton East.

I understand that the TTC probably doesn't want a station there because of the curvature, but I think the benefits of building the station definitely outweigh the downsides.